60 addict with an 80 question

[GLTHFJ60]

Did it help things? Nothing happened b/c it was a Toyota, don't make it right though.


and like I said. Sometimes you need things, and thats not the time for them to fail. Thats when you start thinking about not trying to break sh** when you had the chance.


I guess you can be driving 70 and pull the shifter down in 3,2,1 and if it doesn't break, then it was good for it, cause you where just "testing it".

Now I understand why you were flaming me. You had a bad experience and then blew my situation out of proportion by saying that I was doing donuts and stuff in the 80. I know that low range multiplies the torque that reaches the wheels, and under a turn I would not gun it to see if something broke.

Your advice would be better worded as such: "As long as you're going slow and not dumping the clutch / flooring the gas, that is a sound test for the condition of the birfields."

when I'm evaluating a 4x4 system:

I lock the truck up and go about 5 mph or so, turn the truck right then left in a tight S pattern. I take about as much time to do this as it takes to read this sentence. So yes, it stresses the whole drivetrain, but only for a very short time. If I hear nothing abnormal, the truck passed the test, unlock and go on. If I hear something funny, I continue the test (very slowly) to determine where the noise is coming from.

Exactly what I do, but in circles. Initial test, find a problem then replicate it to see where it is coming from.

 

[Hilux]

well at least you know who you are.............

You know this attitude I'm seeing in 80's....and only 80's, is wearing me thin. You can't post a single thing here without somebody with a bachelor's degree in physics belittling you, for pride or ego's sake. Yeah I know the 80's got a DT from a dump truck, its just this is not the way to find it out.

The way all you HTT's make it sound, this is a good test for checking the roll over point:
YouTube - Toyota Hilux fails the Moose test

AWD test:
YouTube - Car Accident in Russia

And this is a good test to calibrate your inclinometer
YouTube - Jeep roll over

hmm, wonder how the roof would hold up in case I roll it at high speed?...

I won't/ didn't include any Cruiser vid's cause there aren't any! Cruisers are invincible and immune to anything you can throw at them or any method you can think of to test. G.T.O. Gas, tires and oil, if you roll'em, just upright'em and drive off.

Now I understand why you were flaming me. You had a bad experience and then blew my situation out of proportion by saying that I was doing donuts and stuff in the 80. I know that low range multiplies the torque that reaches the wheels, and under a turn I would not gun it to see if something broke.

Not flaming you, and I most certainly did not say you were doing "dough nuts and stuff". I just feel that method of "testing" is not a valid one, and it should be eradicated,,,,,,And I'm not the only one to say that,....in this thread even!

My experience was NO DIFFERENT than yours, only mine, the guy yanked a lever and in yours a switch did it for you.

And last time I checked mini's, (I know not the same size) have birfields as well.

Your advice would be better worded as such: "As long as you're going slow and not dumping the clutch / flooring the gas, that is a sound test for the condition of the birfields."

No it wouldn't? Plenty of threads/ posts in here about people with bad B.F's or Drive flanges, and they weren't even in 4WD!

Those parts, believe it or not, can be tested w/o trying to blow them up. My thoughts are, they are being overly stressed and although not present at the time, stress will shorten their lives and who knows what position you might be in when they do, thats all.

 

[sundaypunch]

just curious, your out evaluating a truck and do this little test which is not advised by Toyota and break the truck. Who's responsible for the repair?

It's a non-issue for me. There is no way I would let someone do this on pavement in a truck I'm selling. They can look for a different one if they aren't comfortable with limiting themself to dirt for this test.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Not flaming you, and I most certainly did not say you were doing "dough nuts and stuff". I just feel that method of "testing" is not a valid one, and it should be eradicated,,,,,,And I'm not the only one to say that,....in this thread even!

My experience was NO DIFFERENT than yours, only mine, the guy yanked a lever and in yours a switch did it for you.

And last time I checked mini's, (I know not the same size) have birfields as well.

No it wouldn't? Plenty of threads/ posts in here about people with bad B.F's or Drive flanges, and they weren't even in 4WD!

Those parts, believe it or not, can be tested w/o trying to blow them up. My thoughts are, they are being overly stressed and although not present at the time, stress will shorten their lives and who knows what position you might be in when they do, thats all.

First of all, I apologize for saying that I did donuts, that was landtank, lol.

Anyway, you said that in your mini, the guy dumped the clutch, right? I eased on the gas and slowed right back down once the clicking started. I know that minis have birfs, I'm not that dumb thank you.

I agree that some don't think that this is a good method, but there are others here that feel that it's alright. The guys in the 60 section don't see any problem at all with this test, granted it doesn't have nearly the amount of replies that this one does yet. If there isn't any noise when driving around in high range, then would you just call it good? I like to make sure that low range works as well when I go look at a 4wd vehicle. How else would you test low? Just forward and reverse in a straight line?

I don't want this to develop into a contest between your opinion and my opinion, Im just looking to find the best way to test out an 80's 4wd capability.

It's a non-issue for me. There is no way I would let someone do this on pavement in a truck I'm selling. They can look for a different one if they aren't comfortable with limiting themself to dirt for this test.

That's a valid concern. I could definitely see a seller not wanting to let a potential buyer risk breaking their rig. What if the dirt or whatever brought about the same type of sounds that the asphalt would? Would you tell the driver to stop, imply that the birfs need to be replaced and therefore deduct the cost of a set of new birfs from the asking price?

 

[landtank]

I've done a few test drives for people and I would never lock the truck on asphalt. I'm there looking for problems not to create some. Sure a properly maintained 80 would have no issues at all doing this but how many 12 year old 80s with 150K+ miles are maintained correctly in the general public? Not many I would guess.

For me if a birf broke while testing on dirt I could live with myself letting the owner pay for the repair since the truck should do that without incident. Now brake it while doing something not recommended and I'd feel obligated to share the cost of the repair. And to be clear, vehicles with 150k miles, everything is worn.

To each his own, but I think everyone can eval a truck thoroughly without going to the extremes.

 

[landtank]

What if the dirt or whatever brought about the same type of sounds that the asphalt would? Would you tell the driver to stop, imply that the birfs need to be replaced and therefore deduct the cost of a set of new birfs from the asking price?

Absolutely, on dirt they should be silent. And if they are and you buy the truck the first thing to do is rebuild the front axle. Unlike the 60s these axles need more attention. It's considered appropriate to rebuild the axle every 60K.

 

[Atticus]

If I test drove someone's rig and broke something with this test, I'd do the repair or ask to see the parts when the repair is done. If the parts were worn, the owner pays. If I broke a part that was in good condition, I'd pay.

-Spike

If you test drove my rig and broke something driving it in circles fully locked on pavement, and I hadn't had any problems with the rig in the past, you're paying for the repair, whether the parts are worn or not. Unless I give you permission to test it that way. That is an abusive maneuver, and is not a reasonable way to test a four wheel drive system, in my opinion. If the parts are badly worn, I may split the repair cost with you.

Then again, I may not.

 

[Hilux]

I agree that some don't think that this is a good method, but there are others here that feel that it's alright. The guys in the 60 section don't see any problem at all with this test, granted it doesn't have nearly the amount of replies that this one does yet. If there isn't any noise when driving around in high range, then would you just call it good? I like to make sure that low range works as well when I go look at a 4wd vehicle. How else would you test low? Just forward and reverse in a straight line?

I don't want this to develop into a contest between your opinion and my opinion, Im just looking to find the best way to test out an 80's 4wd capability.

The problem I have with that test is, power being compounded, opposing forces and the slow speed. I'm sorry if I can not explain this cause traction for me is a state of mind, I've left trying to comprehend it along time ago.


Slow speed: IMO, actually ad's more stress b/c it gives less of an opportunity for energy to escape. Look at the drifter dudes, high tire speed, and its like butter. Now, slow those forces and think about trying to break a tires traction, only it doesn't break. You hard swerve thinking the tail will come out*** and all that happens is all your junk just swishes from one side to the next, my Ex hated that. Done proper and you'd never feel it..blah blah. Anywho. Going around a curve fast, and hearing the tires, you are hearing forces escape. And if they cant, drive line bind; torque builds until forces no longer can be contained then seek the weakest point to escape. What if a joint breaking is the weakest point? And most likely that's at a slow speed.


So if I explained that where it can be understood, now ad compounding power, and opposing forces.

Thats why IH8 it!


Personally I think testing period is not needed. Open diff law says it wont even move if its broke. And you would know it if the only way it was creating forward momentum was the V.C humping.

Anyway those are my thoughts and opinions on the matter.
I apologize if I wrote it where its not understandable.



*** And thats how you roll an SUV(or roll period). The force needed to turn it over was less than what the tire needed to lose its grip or traction.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

I still don't understand quite why engaging the CDL on pavement is such a bad thing, and maybe that's part of the problem here. My understanding is that locking the CDL is no different than putting my 60 in 4 high with the hubs locked. If the weather is bad enough or if I'm going from one trail to another quickly, I would not hesitate to take my truck down a couple miles of road to the next trail, even if it was an asphalt road, but I guess the 80 is that much different. I haven't read anywhere that taking a part time 4wd truck engaged in 4wd on normal city streets through turns, etc, was a bad thing. I always knew that if something sounded really horrible, to stop and investigate. Oh well.

The 80 we saw yesterday then is in good working order then and I will pass it on to Todd.

 

[Atticus]

I still don't understand quite why engaging the CDL on pavement is such a bad thing, and maybe that's part of the problem here. My understanding is that locking the CDL is no different than putting my 60 in 4 high with the hubs locked. If the weather is bad enough or if I'm going from one trail to another quickly, I would not hesitate to take my truck down a couple miles of road to the next trail, even if it was an asphalt road, but I guess the 80 is that much different. I haven't read anywhere that taking a part time 4wd truck engaged in 4wd on normal city streets through turns, etc, was a bad thing. I always knew that if something sounded really horrible, to stop and investigate. Oh well.

The 80 we saw yesterday then is in good working order then and I will pass it on to Todd.

It's not a big deal in the normal course of things. I think it's unnecessarily hard on the system when you are intentionally causing drivetrain windup. Something's got to give. If the truck is heavy enough, and the tires big enough, it's going to be something mechanical.

 

[landtank]

I still don't understand quite why engaging the CDL on pavement is such a bad thing, and maybe that's part of the problem here. My understanding is that locking the CDL is no different than putting my 60 in 4 high with the hubs locked. If the weather is bad enough or if I'm going from one trail to another quickly, I would not hesitate to take my truck down a couple miles of road to the next trail, even if it was an asphalt road, but I guess the 80 is that much different. I haven't read anywhere that taking a part time 4wd truck engaged in 4wd on normal city streets through turns, etc, was a bad thing. I always knew that if something sounded really horrible, to stop and investigate. Oh well.

The 80 we saw yesterday then is in good working order then and I will pass it on to Todd.

it's not necessarily bad but it's also not desirable. One thing the proponents haven't mentioned is that there is a "pin 7" mod that almost everyone has done and use. What this allows you to do is select the CDL state even when you are in low range. So in your case of moving to the next trail head a simple push of the button eliminates the wind up and the truck drives normal.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

it's not necessarily bad but it's also not desirable. One thing the proponents haven't mentioned is that there is a "pin 7" mod that almost everyone has done and use. What this allows you to do is select the CDL state even when you are in low range. So in your case of moving to the next trail head a simple push of the button eliminates the wind up and the truck drives normal.

Ok, so would my lock to lock circling be a "safe" test of the condition of the birfields if the truck is in low range with the center diff unlocked?

That could obviously only be done on rigs with this switch, but it is logical.

 

[landtank]

Ok, so would my lock to lock circling be a "safe" test of the condition of the birfields if the truck is in low range with the center diff unlocked?

That could obviously only be done on rigs with this switch, but it is logical.

yes, that would be the same as in Hi with no wind up.

Guys have blown a birf in their back yard on grass. Rare but it has happened. The birfs in the 80 is probably the most neglected joint in the drive train and it's used constantly. I had a 60 for 189K miles and never took apart the front axle, my 80 has been torn down three times and a fourth for a dry spindle bushing. It's a high maintenance axle compared to the 60s.

 

[Mace]

Fundamentally, if the birfs are gonna click they are gonna click while making a U turn on pavement.

It is not something that really needs to be done. I do think that testing the 4wd system is a good idea. I would prefer that it was on dirt, but short distances on pavement is fine..

 

[-Spike-]

I think someone's taking the idea of 'pink panties' a bit too far... JMHO.

-Spike

 

[Hilux]

For the life of me I cant figure out how "testing" the 4WD differs from just driving it?

 

[Izeloz]

"Testing the 4wd" = taking it off some sweet jumps.

 

[reffug]

Fundamentally, if the birfs are gonna click they are gonna click while making a U turn on pavement.

It is not something that really needs to be done. I do think that testing the 4wd system is a good idea. I would prefer that it was on dirt, but short distances on pavement is fine..

what he said........

 

[IdahoDoug]

My brain hurts.....

DougM

 

[Tools R Us]

...The dork almost grenade'd a joint for me.

How do you know?

He dumped the clutch, in reverse, 4WD, wheels to lock.

Wheels turned somewhat reduces the breaking strength, but birfs don't care which direction they are turning. So from a birf standpoint reverse makes zero differance.

It chirped and lurched and bucked like a bronco, anything less and it would have been pieces...

All of your drama maybe cool on some forum? But this is a tech forum and anyone that has wheeled on high traction surfaces would tell you that this is normal, expected behavior for a locked up truck on said surface.

You know this attitude I'm seeing in 80's....and only 80's, is wearing me thin. You can't post a single thing here without somebody with a bachelor's degree in physics belittling you, for pride or ego's sake. ...

Or maybe trying to separate fact from drama?

Those parts, believe it or not, can be tested w/o trying to blow them up. My thoughts are, they are being overly stressed and although not present at the time, stress will shorten their lives and who knows what position you might be in when they do, thats all.

Testing birfs is simple, turn the wheel hard over and make a brisk u-turn, in normal street gear, high range, drive. If their clickers, most likely to going to click when turning sharp with pretty good throttle input.

I lock in the parking lot to test the locker actuators. It sucks to show up on the trail with one or more lockers inoperative, been there, done that, passed on the t-shirt.

It's not a big deal in the normal course of things. I think it's unnecessarily hard on the system when you are intentionally causing drivetrain windup. Something's got to give. If the truck is heavy enough, and the tires big enough, it's going to be something mechanical.

I'm comfortable doing lock tests on asphalt and wheeling locked on rock, if your not, it's simple, don't. Something gives, in my experience a tire looses traction, slips, barks. If the 80 wasn't built to take it there would have been much carnage last week at CM when the Moab seals were barking often. Maybe if my rig gets heaver and/or big tires it may become an issue?