5th gen 4 runner vs LC250

[Jetboy]

FWIW - I'm pretty sure the Sequoia only comes with the 10.5 rear.

I'm also guessing that the 9.5 vs 9.7 is a matter of gear ratio. The higher ratios have a larger pinion and wider gear face on the ring gear resulting in a slightly larger ring gear OD. I'm not 100% sure on that - but it's the obvious reason for the slight variation. <- that doesn't apply to the 8" vs 8.2 - they are quite a bit different. Although so is a current 9.5 vs older 9.5. A current 8.2 is probably 50% stronger than a 60 series 9.5 and a current 9.5 is probably 100% stronger. Just rough guess, but the pinion updates made a big difference in overall strength.

Even so - the hybrid powertrain has more torque applied to the axle than the 5.7 Tundra or the 5.7 LC200 did. That's a lot for a relatively small axle. And the LC250 is heavy. Heavier than almost all crewcab 4x4 full size domestic trucks except for the raptor, TRX, and ev models. I'm not sure if I'm a skeptic, but I'm definitely interested to see how the 8.2 will hold up. My initial thought is that the software must limit torque in lower gears to help it survive. It's hard to imagine that diff holding up to a full application of 465 ft lbs on a rock climb. I think it would go a lot like the TFL front diff in that video.

 

[Jetboy]

I'm also looking at it in terms of parts confusion and aftermarket support 10-15 years for now. With so many different models many of the parts may be different as well. Aftermarket R&P availability will suffer as Yukon/Nitro etc will need to make 5 different R&P sets instead of two. AFB and Harrop will need to have 5 separate lockers.

We're already kind of stuck in that with the 8.2 - being Prado 150/5th gen T4R platform only - and just 4.56 and 4.88s available - relative to the 8" or 9.5" where you can get just about any ratio you want. 8.2 lockers are pricey as well.

I think there will be a fair amount of confusion on what fits where. Although I suppose there's about 20 different Toyota diff versions now, so maybe we're already there. On the parts side it shouldn't be too bad. R&P sets are pretty easy to source. Most if not all of the "name brand" gears are not manufacturers. They are just resellers from the few places that manufacture them. The last time I inquired the min order quantity for the setup and manufacture of a first run of a new ratio is 200 sets. Not a big hurdle if there's demand. And the wholesale price is probably a lot lower than you think. PM me if you're curious. You're paying for a lot of marketing budget.

 

[APIOQM]

Isn't is why TMC has the 1958 edition? Base model to make it your own by putting on Tundra SA or Dana 60's. It seems quite silly and a waste of monies to mode out a LC when it is 6K more expensive. 6K can buy a lot of power train parts.

Wake up pony please, I want more.

Out of curiosity, how would one source a new Toyota differential, and do we have any idea how much it would cost? Could I go to a Toyota dealership and order up a Tundra rear diff?

 

[Jetboy]

Out of curiosity, how would one source a new Toyota differential, and do we have any idea how much it would cost? Could I go to a Toyota dealership and order up a Tundra rear diff?

You can buy from Toyota dealers, but in most cases this would involve buying from a junk yard. LKQ is probably the best known, but there's enough of the new tundras out in the world that they should be pretty easy to find. I just looked on a parts finder for salvage yards and found half a dozen available. They're about $2500-$4,000 depending on salvage yard location for a rear axle assembly from a 22+ tundra with E locker. That's the one I'd be looking for. And the suspension setup is nearly identical, so it may even be a bolt in swap over or close to it. Won't know for sure what all needs to be adapted until someone tries it.

Front is likely to be a much more involved swap. I don't think we know if the front diffs are physically interchangeable or not. If they are, then you'd still need to figure out the axles and what mixes and matches or have custom axles made, or possible be able to swap the entire front suspension including control arms and spindles etc. Going down that road can get expensive and complicated fast even if all the necessary OEM parts are available. There's a point where it's just cheaper and easier to buy something else.

 

[TheLCProject]

Isn't is why TMC has the 1958 edition? Base model to make it your own by putting on Tundra SA or Dana 60's. It seems quite silly and a waste of monies to mode out a LC when it is 6K more expensive. 6K can buy a lot of power train parts.

Yes, this is precisely why TMC created the 1958 Edition...so that less than .001% of [owners] not only won't care but will never swap out differentials or axles - but TMC, in their infinite benevolence, wanted to give the hardcore rock crawlers a lower entry point.

*eyeroll*

 

[krice118]

Isn't is why TMC has the 1958 edition? Base model to make it your own by putting on Tundra SA or Dana 60's. It seems quite silly and a waste of monies to mode out a LC when it is 6K more expensive. 6K can buy a lot of power train parts.

Wake up pony please, I want more...

Is the base 1985 easier to modify than the other trims?

 

[Rednexus]

Out of curiosity, how would one source a new Toyota differential, and do we have any idea how much it would cost? Could I go to a Toyota dealership and order up a Tundra rear diff?

You can get complete 3rd members from Toyota. I looked into it - getting a factory e-locked 8.2 3rd member - and they are $2-3K. Honestly they are not a bad deal for something 100% new and plug-and-play. Housings are $1K-1,500 (at least for an 8.2).

Used complete diffs are $$$$$. I've been looking for a cheap 8.2 for months with no luck - even a non-locked 8.2 is around $1,500 minimum, with some folks charging $2,500. I am sure 9.5" and 10.5" diffs command even more.

EDIT: The 2022+ Tundra factory-locked 3rd member is can be found for as low as $2,200. Some dealers due Labor Day/Memorial Day/July 4th sales where they drop prices even more.

41110-0C110 - Carrier Assembly 2022-2024 Toyota Tundra | Tom Wood Toyota Parts

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[Flight2k5]

You can get complete 3rd members from Toyota. I looked into it - getting a factory e-locked 8.2 3rd member - and they are $2-3K. Honestly they are not a bad deal for something 100% new and plug-and-play. Housings are $1K-1,500 (at least for an 8.2).

Used complete diffs are $$$$$. I've been looking for a cheap 8.2 for months with no luck - even a non-locked 8.2 is around $1,500 minimum, with some folks charging $2,500. I am sure 9.5" and 10.5" diffs command even more.

EDIT: The 2022+ Tundra factory-locked 3rd member is can be found for as low as $2,200. Some dealers due Labor Day/Memorial Day/July 4th sales where they drop prices even more.

41110-0C110 - Carrier Assembly 2022-2024 Toyota Tundra | Tom Wood Toyota Parts

Order Your OEM Carrier Assembly (411100c110) For Your 2022-2024 Toyota Tundra Vehicle At A Discount Price With Nationwide Delivery!

parts.tomwoodtoyota.com

if I were to buy locked 8.2 from the dealer, would it fit in my GX460 housing? Or would I have to get a new housing as well?

 

[Rednexus]

if I were to buy locked 8.2 from the dealer, would it fit in my GX460 housing? Or would I have to get a new housing as well?

Since you have a GX460, my understanding is that you'd need to get a manual transmission FJ Cruiser 3rd member that has the same 3.91 gear ratio (the 5th gen 4Runner e-locker has a 3.73 ratio - which is the same ratio as a GX470 as well). I'm guessing these would be hard to find - perhaps they are still available new, perhaps not. If you could find one, it should then be a direct bolt-in, although you'd have to get an aftermarket harness to engage the locker.

It would probably be easier to have an off road/gear shop install a rear locker in your current 3rd member. Then you could have a Harrop, which has a simpler engagement mechanism and wiring than the factory Toyota e-locker (or an ARB if you wanted to go that route).

 

[Jetboy]

if I were to buy locked 8.2 from the dealer, would it fit in my GX460 housing? Or would I have to get a new housing as well?

No. The e-locker housing is different. They can be modified to work I think, but it would involve some cutting and drilling. Probably cheaper/easier in most cases to buy a complete e-locker rear axle. I'd guess that the end cost of adding an Eaton e-locker is probably the cheaper option for a GX460.

It's been a few years. My memory is that I paid about $700 for a complete 4Runner 8.2 elocker 3rd member with low miles. But that was a couple years ago. I used it as a core to build my 4.56 diffs. Just checking on car-part came up with complete 8.2 elocker rear axles with KDSS (should be the one you want) they're $2500. You can get an eaton e-locker installed for less than that without touching a wrench. I'd opt for the eaton option. I'm not a fan of ARB lockers, so I'd pay the extra $ to go with the Eaton and skip the hassles down the road.

 

[Rednexus]

No. The e-locker housing is different. They can be modified to work I think, but it would involve some cutting and drilling. Probably cheaper/easier in most cases to buy a complete e-locker rear axle. I'd guess that the end cost of adding an Eaton e-locker is probably the cheaper option for a GX460.

It's been a few years. My memory is that I paid about $700 for a complete 4Runner 8.2 elocker 3rd member with low miles. But that was a couple years ago. I used it as a core to build my 4.56 diffs. Just checking on car-part came up with complete 8.2 elocker rear axles with KDSS (should be the one you want) they're $2500. You can get an eaton e-locker installed for less than that without touching a wrench. I'd opt for the eaton option. I'm not a fan of ARB lockers, so I'd pay the extra $ to go with the Eaton and skip the hassles down the road.

I was mistaken. I knew the 8" open and e-locked were different but did not know the 8.2" were also different.

 

[Jetboy]

I was mistaken. I knew the 8" open and e-locked were different but did not know the 8.2" were also different.

You're only partly mistaken. It may be both on the 8.2.

The J150 version of the 8.2 is the same design as all of the previous Toyota e-lockers with the external actuator. The newer 8.2 in the LC250 is different. If I read the diagram correctly, Toyota changed the design to use the magnet style internal actuation. So, the newer 8.2 should be a direct swap between those with and without lockers and share the same housing.

What I don't think is known yet is whether the new 8.2 e-locker is compatible with the prior 8.2 non-elocker housing. Might be as easy as a simple bolt in swap over. That would be awesome. Needs a re-gear, but could be an easy affordable option once they end up in salvage yards. I think it's pretty safe to say the new 8.2 elocker would not be compatible with the outgoing 8.2 elocker housing.

Also interesting food for thought - if someone could measure the mounting flange to axel center distance and they are the same between the new 8.2 and older 8.0 (they're very close in physical ring gear size, so it could end up being close enough that a thin shim or no shim would work) - it might be possible to simply re-drill the flange on your 8" axle and use the new 8.2 e-locker third member. Never know until someone gets some precise measurement of them. I'm about 99% sure that the 8.2 differential would physically fit into the 8" housing, just not sure how the flanges match up and distance flange to axle shaft center. Also not sure if the axle shafts share the same spline count and size. The 8.2 has a shorter pinion, so that's an easy fix with a spacer.

 

[Rednexus]

Do you know if a 4.30 ratio is available in the new 8.2 elocker in the LC250 or other platforms that will use the 8.2? I'd much rather go with a 4.30 than a 4.56 and may be willing to guinea pig the swap into a bare 8.2 housing and then throw that into my GX470. I'd also look at dumping the 8.2" into my 8" but I read somewhere it's unlikely the'd fit.

To be honest, a ECGS setup with a Harrop rear locker and 4.56 gears is not cheap, considering the need to buy a bare 3rd member core as well.

 

[Jetboy]

Do you know if a 4.30 ratio is available in the new 8.2 elocker in the LC250 or other platforms that will use the 8.2? I'd much rather go with a 4.30 than a 4.56 and may be willing to guinea pig the swap into a bare 8.2 housing and then throw that into my GX470. I'd also look at dumping the 8.2" into my 8" but I read somewhere it's unlikely the'd fit.

To be honest, a ECGS setup with a Harrop rear locker and 4.56 gears is not cheap, considering the need to buy a bare 3rd member core as well.

I'm not aware of any 4.30 ratio for the 8.2. That's always been my biggest issue is the gap between 3.91 and 4.56. There are no options I know of between the two ratios.

Buying a full new diff is not cheap. The harrop or eaton locker option is really the best for a GX460 that already has the 8.2. I think if you're going to move from 8" to 8.2 then it makes sense to swap housings.

But, maybe it's worth it now to just wait a bit for the tacomas to start showing up in junk yards. There should be a bunch of 8.2" rear axles showing up in junk yards from the new Taco that might be easy swaps in the next year or two. And then you'll get the newer actuation that is much easier to do the electronics for. And hopefully cheaper once enough of them are out. But you're stuck with having to regear it.

 

[Rednexus]

I'm gonna swap next year. My options will be a Mexican-market FJ Cruiser trussed housing ($1,100 of so new from Toyota) or a clean complete non-elocker 8.2 housing from a 5th gen. 33s are going on later this summer and my rig is already under-geared for towing with 3.73s and 32s.

 

[Jetboy]

One alternative if you have some fabrication tools would be a Land Cruiser 9.5 swap with e-locker from a LC100. You'd need to find a machine shop to drill out the mounting flange for 6 bolt pattern and turn the hub centric ring down from 110mm to 106mm. Both should be pretty easy work for a machine shop if you can find one to work with. With the 1" difference in bolt pattern diameter I'm not sure you'd even need to weld in the old holes. You can often find those complete axles for around $1k with the differential included. And they come in 4.30 ratio already. Then you could ideally just find a OEM 4.30 front diff from a Tacoma and you'd have a nice ratio and super strong rear axle.

 

[Flight2k5]

No. The e-locker housing is different. They can be modified to work I think, but it would involve some cutting and drilling. Probably cheaper/easier in most cases to buy a complete e-locker rear axle. I'd guess that the end cost of adding an Eaton e-locker is probably the cheaper option for a GX460.

It's been a few years. My memory is that I paid about $700 for a complete 4Runner 8.2 elocker 3rd member with low miles. But that was a couple years ago. I used it as a core to build my 4.56 diffs. Just checking on car-part came up with complete 8.2 elocker rear axles with KDSS (should be the one you want) they're $2500. You can get an eaton e-locker installed for less than that without touching a wrench. I'd opt for the eaton option. I'm not a fan of ARB lockers, so I'd pay the extra $ to go with the Eaton and skip the hassles down the road.

I appreciate it

 

[Rednexus]

One alternative if you have some fabrication tools would be a Land Cruiser 9.5 swap with e-locker from a LC100. You'd need to find a machine shop to drill out the mounting flange for 6 bolt pattern and turn the hub centric ring down from 110mm to 106mm. Both should be pretty easy work for a machine shop if you can find one to work with. With the 1" difference in bolt pattern diameter I'm not sure you'd even need to weld in the old holes. You can often find those complete axles for around $1k with the differential included. And they come in 4.30 ratio already. Then you could ideally just find a OEM 4.30 front diff from a Tacoma and you'd have a nice ratio and super strong rear axle.

Would the shocks/links bolt up? Also looks like the 3rd member is offset. I do have a MIG and other fabrication tools. There is one on ebay now for $1025.

 

[Jstawgn]

Somebody post this in Facebook today. Download It for reference.

150 rear diff is infact same BD21 series same as LC250 rear although the ring gear offset might be different as Toyota usually use different carrier for below 3.73 and above 3.73.

 

[Jetboy]

Would the shocks/links bolt up? Also looks like the 3rd member is offset. I do have a MIG and other fabrication tools. There is one on ebay now for $1025.

I forgot that it was about 4" offset. It wasn't until the 200 that it is centered. Would probably work, but not ideal. The suspension design is very similar. But I don't know what would bolt up. Without having done one myself I'd hate to give you bad info on it. Diamond axle/Front Range Off Road builds a bolt-on housing for the 9.5 to GX470, but it's $2300 for the housing plus another $1k?? for the locking diff.

If you were going to spend $2500 for an 8.2 plus another $3-400 for gears, you're still quite a bit cheaper for the 8.2 and it's a near-oem solution. Best case is maybe you can find a 4Runner or GX 8.2 non-elocker cheap at a pick and pull for $500 and toss an aftermarket locker and gears in and maybe get it all in for $2k.

You can see the offset here. The red background is an LC100, the other is a GX470. They're pretty close. I just don't know for sure how they would match up in real life. It's hard to believe someone hasn't done it yet.