4Wheel Underground FJ80 3Link....... Now available!!! ***A Full frontal attack***

[4WheelUnderground]

So question #1. Drive shaft vs. link placement? The two have nothing to do with each other in terms of performance gains. Including my own designs and others on the mini truck platforms and Tacoma's we often see them being placed in the same location, however this is mostly because of platform based restrictions and designing off what we know already works for those vehicles. At best the ability of the lower link to aid in protecting the drive shaft from the terrain is reason for the popularity. But there is no magic.

I didn't move them back any further because of the crossmember.

 

[4WheelUnderground]

Question #2. Why not incorporate the lower links into the crossmember?
For many many reasons and yes I did think about it. My thoughts on it are that initially it sounds like a great idea, until you get into what if's. There are also many restrictions involved in doing so. A higher price tag is one of my first thoughts. I may also be forcing some one to buy an item they don't want or already have. We also loose the modular appeal of the product by limiting the customer to a complete unchangeable overall design. To make things more complicated; incorporating the front and rear together in to one system with a sub frame and transmission mount and necessary anti sway bars that can not be installed at the time of your choosing/ala cart would then demand a 9K price tag all in one shot. And, while optimum form a design stand point it certainly isn't from a sales stand point. Absolutely no making it your own could be offered. A simply change of wheel base could unravel the whole concept. To your point the 80 doesn't get as many people doing radically different designs but the complexity of execution offers a large engineering/R&D task that may not see a return on its investment. The plan as of now is to design a similar system to what is offered on the mini truck/Tacoma platforms ala/cart everything that all works together with minimal design/fab from you.

 

[bobbynelson0730]

So when's the rear kit coming?

 

[4WheelUnderground]

We are working with someone on it. That's all I can say for now.

 

[Delancy]

I understand the concept of product phasing and standardization from both a marketing and profit perspective, but believe this to be a market that may warrant a second look, based on the environment.

Liken it to this:

The largest two animals on the planet, both fish and mammal, consume the tiniest, but at an astounding rate, one that has to be maintained constantly, without fail, to survive.

They have no natural predators.

Their evolutionary competitors, both fish and mammal, while smaller in stature are both formidable, fearsome, yet they hunt for single meals, consuming one at a time, and, as well, have no natural predators.

You don't have the luxury of an ocean full of krill, but you do have enough fatty prey to survive, sustain, then thrive.

But enough of my philosophical economics, since my interest are self serving, to an extent.

Little concerned about steering and figured I'd pose here, instead of jcardona's thread.

I've discussed with Billy over the course of several years, with my preference being 80 TREs in the past, him recently making the case for rod ends, which I bought into.

As you're aware, the latest HF rendition has no forward mounting provisions on the DS arm.

Jcardona's

Bobby's

Billy's original and, best I can tell, how he's intended.

So, is the tie rod orientation in the last pic not a possibility?

 

[4WheelUnderground]

Nice. That's great. Now I get to convince Billy to switch back to his previous design.

 

[Delancy]

Nice. That's great. Now I get to convince Billy to switch back to his previous design.

So the tie rod in back, drag link in front isn't going to work?

 

[4WheelUnderground]

It will. But lots of guys don't want that. Plus I had hopes of offering y style set up for guys.

 

[jcardona1]

It will. But lots of guys don't want that. Plus I had hopes of offering y style set up for guys.

Brian - That simply doesn't work because of the panhard bracket. This was just a quick test fit. If it put the tierod in the inner holes, it hits the panhard bracket. With the actual panhard in place it would be even worse. And this was on top of the arms. Not a chance it would fit mounted under the arms. Using these current Hellfire knuckles, tierod needs to go on the outer holes, no exceptions.

And here's some old pics of that other customer's early install. I can only guess at the sequence of events based on the pics, but in this photo he's got hte tierod on the inner holes

As soon as he added the panhard bracket though, the tierod was moved to the outer holes. I can only assume, but I'm fairly certain it was because it's the only way the steering would work.

You'll also notice he had heims in those pictures. Because he could only use the outer holes I believe is the reason he went with a y-link TRE setup

 

[4WheelUnderground]

Agreed. That's what I was saying. If you look at Justin ' s build he used a Y STYLE setup and both arms had the extended holes. Billy changed his design and it's now creating a problem.

 

[jcardona1]

Agreed. That's what I was saying. If you look at Justin ' s build he used a Y STYLE setup and both arms had the extended holes. Billy changed his design and it's now creating a problem.

Yup. But I think when Delancy said 'tierod in the back", I believe he meant in back as in the inner holes on the Hellfire knuckles, which won't work right? I don't think he meant tierod in the back as in stock configuration.

 

[4WheelUnderground]

I didn't get that from his writing I've been known to misread things before. Paul should get a kick out of that. Lol. Total inside joke.

 

[jcardona1]

I didn't get that from his writing I've been known to misread things before. Paul should get a kick out of that. Lol. Total inside joke.

Is Billy charging extra for the DS arms with 2 holes? Sent him an email a few weeks ago but never heard back. Seems like it was done to save costs.

 

[4WheelUnderground]

I'm going to call him later to see what the possibly of a different arm is.

 

[jcardona1]

I'm going to call him later to see what the possibly of a different arm is.

Actually I just sent him another email and got an instant reply. He said no charge, just send it back to him and he'll exchange it

 

[4WheelUnderground]

Sweet! Note for reference tell Billy you plan on using the 4WU kit and you need both long arms.

 

[Delancy]

To clarify, without ambiguity.

These two rear mounting holes on the arms:

are absolutely useless and there's no way to run a tie rod in the back (two holes on the arm) with the drag link in the front hole only?

 

[Delancy]

Yup. But I think when Delancy said 'tierod in the back", I believe he meant in back as in the inner holes on the Hellfire knuckles, which won't work right? I don't think he meant tierod in the back as in stock configuration.

Thanks for translating!!

I didn't get that from his writing.

You've no excuse as you've had plenty of time to become
D-English proficient.

 

[Delancy]

So, how's it gonna complicate it if one were to implement a hydro assisted tie rod, like the EMF set up?

 

[4WheelUnderground]

I don't think that question deserves an answer.