3b reactions and advice for 55 transplant (1 Viewer)

[poseidon]

Hi all,

I know this has probably been discused before but I did a search and didn't find exactly what I wanted.

I live in eastern Oregon. I am putting a new powerplant into my 71 fj55 I ave been considering a cummins 4bt, mopar 383 or a toyota 3b. I would rather replace the old F motor than spend a penny on it. I have always thought I would like to have a diesel but never have.

I am planning on doing a SOA on my fj55 and making a fairly capable expedition & light offroad vehicle. Something I could drive cross country, wheel, and drive back home. It would get regular use. It would not be towing anything unless a little utility trailer but it would have to pull lots of mountain grades and loaded down with people and gear on occasion. I have a spare running 2f. I plan to keep my 55 forever!

I have an opertuninty to buy a RUSTY early 80s BJ60 that has been imported to the states for around $2k. It is a 4 speed I would get the whole running vehicle minus some body pieces. If I bought the 60 I would take the whole drive train (engine/trans/tc/axles) for my 55.

I looked at the power charts and the 3b is lower than the f and the 2f, not that I want a rocket ship but I do want to be able to do 70 on the highway and be able to climb back and forth over the cascade mountains. I plant to put a turbo on it but not right away.

Questions For those of you with bj60s:

How is the maintenance costs of a 3b?
Will a 3b pull a fj55 up a steep long grade without having to slow down & downshift too much?
Do you think I would be better off with at 2f?
Should I save my money and get a Cummins 4bt instead of the 3b?

Thank you
E

 

[crushers]

if you are going SOA then pass on the 3B, they are underpowered in the 60 series and the 55 is about the same weight.
either a 13BT or a 12HT or a 1HZ is the only options i would consider if you want to stay toyota...
stay with the 2F and stick a shaved late 73-74 F head on and the power will be very good and the milage will also go up (unless you have your foot into it all the time)
just my suggestion
cheers

 

[cruiser_guy]

We restored my daughters '76 FJ55 and put in a 3B with a turbo from a Volvo. On my '82 BJ60 is was not really fast on the hills pre-turbo but post turbo I am more than satisfied. Maintenance costs are very low, basically oil changes and an occasional valve adjustment.
The 3B without a turbo will slow down on the long steep grades but it will pull with the low end torque.
The mileage on the 3B will be significantly better than the 2F, I'd bet double the mileage.
If you do get the 3B to transplant get a pyrometer right away. Don't wait till the turbo goes on. If there's a weak spot on the 3B I'd have to say it's the head.

 

[crushers]

and $2000 vacumm pump that quits when the budget is low......
Cruiser-guy, you are probably running close to stock on your rig? yes? and if he is going SOA axle then i am willing to be he will be running at least 35" boots or bigger and SOA also makes for much more drag.
the fuel economy will not be that great once you take that into consideration.
each to their own but i would not waste my time on a 3B transplant when there are a nice variety of engines available now and by the time you take into consideration a 3B engine rebuild and the cost of a turbo you could get a 13BT.
also do not forget he is taking a 4 speed for behind it if the truck is a 1981 or 1982 so add the cost of a H55f into the equation...
not worth the effort in my books, but each to their own...
cheers

 

[wesintl]

I have touble pushing 31's with 4.11's on my 70 but I'm at altitude. Just weighed a split wheel i'm running and it was about 78lbs. ea whoa.. I was doing 45 up a long grade here on i25 on sunday in CO springs and being passed by semis and pissing people off. I got off the highway and enjoyed the rest of my trip on a 2 lane road with no traffic.

FORGET The 3B on a SOA 55 you will regret it big time. Rebuild the F or 2F and hot rod it or get a 4BT. if your SOA you can fit a 6bt.

 

[poseidon]

Thank you guys!

That was good stuff to know!

I have a hot soup 2f that I will drop in until I am feeling rich enough for the 4bt.

I have considered the 6bt but from what I have heard the 4bt will fit a 55 with an intercooler and on the 6bt the intercooler will not fit. I would rather have a smaller engine tuned up that I can push than a huge hog that I can't push, even if the #s are about the same. I fear the 6bt is just TOO much torque readily availible and I know I would wind up braking something.

E

 

[Diesel Dude]

I agree go with the 5.9L cummins it shouldnt be too hard to fit in a piggy and you would then have good power.

 

[wesintl]

I fear the 6bt is just TOO much torque readily availible and I know I would wind up braking something.

E

Well, just run the nv4500 and dana 60's

 

[cruiser_guy]

and $2000 vacumm pump that quits when the budget is low......
Cruiser-guy, you are probably running close to stock on your rig? yes? and if he is going SOA axle then i am willing to be he will be running at least 35" boots or bigger and SOA also makes for much more drag.
the fuel economy will not be that great once you take that into consideration.
each to their own but i would not waste my time on a 3B transplant when there are a nice variety of engines available now and by the time you take into consideration a 3B engine rebuild and the cost of a turbo you could get a 13BT.
also do not forget he is taking a 4 speed for behind it if the truck is a 1981 or 1982 so add the cost of a H55f into the equation...
not worth the effort in my books, but each to their own...
cheers

The FJ55 is basically stock with the 3 speed one piece case and 4 speed tranny. If he's going with 35" or larger tires then the H55 is not really necessary as you wouldn't normally use 5th gear unless you were at or over the legal speed limit. With stock tires I'm around 2400rpm at the legal limit in most places when running in 5th gear with 3.7 thirds. When I get new tires next I'm getting taller narrow tires so we'll see if I'm still happy then.

I haven't had a vacuum pump go out yet in over 16 years of 3B driving. I agree if the 3B needs a rebuild then the 3B + rebuild + turbo will be equal to the cost of a non-rebuilt 13B-T. The benefit of the 3B is that it was imported here so parts are likely easier to get if it's something that doesn't cross over. Travelling like I do all over the Americas, that's a BIG benefit. I can pick up parts over the counter here in Guatemala for my Canadian spec truck. I KNOW that wouldn't be the case for the 13B-T as hardly anyone has a turbo down here. Even many of the newer diesels arn't turbo'd here and that surprised me!?!?!?

Wesintl,

You must not be turbo'd if that's all you can manage. Sounds like me pre-turbo. Totally gutless at altitude.


I'm a diesel guy and I'd run with a diesel over a gasser ANY day.

 

[dieseldog]

A turbo'd 3B has the same torque and horsepower numbers as the best 2F's. It's all about the gearing. If you plan on running anything over 33's, then put in new ring gear in the diffs. Put a five-speed in the picture if you plan on cruising the highway at 70, and you will never regret it. As far as increased drag from an SOA rig goes--hey, there are no aerodynamic Land Cruisers. But, to each his own.

 

[wesintl]

Wesintl,

You must not be turbo'd if that's all you can manage. Sounds like me pre-turbo. Totally gutless at altitude.


I'm a diesel guy and I'd run with a diesel over a gasser ANY day.

Yeap.. Turboless and I hate highway driving with it. Round town is ok. Once things look up I'll have a turbo here real soon. I almost can't take it anymore. I think i'm going to name the truck Turtle.. if only it was green.

 

[brownbear]

Yeap.. Turboless and I hate highway driving with it. Round town is ok. Once things look up I'll have a turbo here real soon. I almost can't take it anymore. I think i'm going to name the truck Turtle.. if only it was green.

I was hating slugging up the mountains too. But once I got the pyro on and adjusted the engine to reach my correct temps. I found it gave me quite a bit more power. But I do think the PO had it turned waaayy down. The pyro makes me feel safer to have it turned up a little. It will go over on a hill climb, but I watch and make sure it doesn't.

I still want a turbo though. So I can keep my foot down and temps from rising.

 

[Greg_B]

if you are going SOA then pass on the 3B, they are underpowered in the 60 series and the 55 is about the same weight.
either a 13BT or a 12HT or a 1HZ is the only options i would consider if you want to stay toyota...cheers

How far we have come since the JDM thing landed on our CDn shores....

A few years back, the option was 3B-T...and possibly a 1HZ if you got real lucky. Now there is the 12HT, 13BT and more 1HZ's to choose from, for those that want to stay factory. EDIT---not to forget the 1HD-T family---END EDIT. Slap a turbo and propane on your 1HZ ala Crushers and go nutz...

The 3B has a soft spot in my heart, are pretty much bullet proof and world proven. One day a turbo charged 3B will grace a truck of mine, as will a 1HZ, etc...just because. In the meantime I will enjoy my 13BT powered BJ74...

The 3B will be a slug till you turbo it, and will not be a rocket ship after the turbo, but response and driving will be night and day....from what I have gathered.

If you don't like the vacuum pump, then throw out the 12HT, 13BT and 3BII, (and the 2H) as they all hang off the back of the alternator (in LandCrusiers anyway). (HIJACK---I may have salvaged a toast vacuum pump and alt spline...little more shaving to do, then the test END HIJACK).

If you can get the BJ60 that cheap, use the entire drive train, and if you can verify the engine is healthy (good cold/hot oil pressure, good compression at a minimum...and one local Toyota Master Mechanic I know locally recommends pulling the head, checking/replacing the precups to be really sure) then you may well be happy with this set-up. There's lots of people who have plunked a turbo on and just run it too...Moderate boost and you could be fine for years...

If you have to rebuilt it, and add a turbo, then the costs start getting into the range of considering a used JDM that has been run and verified...

The DI vs IDI debate then starts...educate yourself, as you are doing, and see what you want.

I don't want to talk you out of looking at G&S for a JDM engine, and getting a current production Toyota diesel (1HZ), or the culmination of the 3B and 2H platform (13BT and 12HT), however you are the one that has to be happy with your choice. All these engines are either running around in rigs right now, and there are a few at the install phase.

Heck, there are a few HD-T's running around in the USA mated behind H55F's, and a 1HD-T and 1HD-FT in Lexus 450's in Western Canada.

Everything mentioned on this thread are viable options. Depends on what you want at the end of the day.

gb

 

[lowenbrau]

I've run 35s on a NA 3B for thousands and thousands and thousands of miles. Engine maintainance is nearly cost free. Off road its very economical and nearly always has enough power to spin the tires if you have sufficient gearing.

Do I have you believing that I like it yet? We'll I *don't* Not even a little bit. Its friggin slow. You don't want to have to down shift on hills? How many times? I've been into second gear at altitude on the highway. Getting passed by loaded 'b' trains. (and the odd freight train too when driving into a headwind)

A 3B gets to be no fun at all after 31" tires. All that being said, a turbo charger is always way down the list for me after suspension, winch, tires, lockers, etc. I take pride on driving my rig to the trail and have wheeled from California to Alaska to Ontario. All normally aspirated, all very slowly.

My driving record is pretty good though.

 

[dieseldog]

I had 33x9.5x15's on my NA 88 BJ-73 with stock gearing; however, I did not like how much it lugged down. I went back to the 31x10.5x15's and will just wait to sort out a turbo kit for the 3B-II engine. If I went back to the larger tires, I would definitely swap out ring gears at the same time.

 

[Grease Cruiser]

Damn!! It looks like Poseidon won't be buying my BJ60 after all. Yep, the BJ60 that he was thinking of buying to dieselize his FJ55, is mine.

You guys give good advice. I also told him that maybe my BJ60 may not be the best for what he wants to do. That is why I chose to do a Cummins 4BT/NV4500 in my FJ60 instead of the 3B.

Looks like I will have to resort to putting the 3B/4speed into my motorless FJ40. Oh well.

 

[poseidon]

Damn!! It looks like Poseidon won't be buying my BJ60 after all. Yep, the BJ60 that he was thinking of buying to dieselize his FJ55, is mine.

You guys give good advice. I also told him that maybe my BJ60 may not be the best for what he wants to do. That is why I chose to do a Cummins 4BT/NV4500 in my FJ60 instead of the 3B.

Looks like I will have to resort to putting the 3B/4speed into my motorless FJ40. Oh well.

After all the reviews I think I may get the cummins 4bt instead myself. but I do have a friend that is BIG into biodiesel and vegie oil conversions like in his current vw and drooled all over my 60 especialy when I told him there is a diesel version. He told me to keep an eye out for one for him and he wanted a diesel Landruiser. I will try to talk to him this weekend. If you lived closer I would still take it to part the thing out and keep those axles for my 55!

E

 

[Grease Cruiser]

If you want the axles for your 55, they are for sale. Let me know if you are interested. Not sure what they are worth.

The 4BT is the way to go for your FJ55 in my opinion. The 3B is just too underpowered for what you want to do. I chose the 4Bt for my 60 for that exact reason. So now, I will be putting the 3B into my FJ40. Should be a pretty sweet ride.

 

[dieseldog]

You'll get no arguments from me as to the awesome capabilities of all things Cummins. I have a great 91 Dodge Cummins tow rig with over 200,000 miles and it has served me well. The only concern in installing a Cummins (be it a 4BT or 6BT) is that it is a fairly low-revving engine. My 12v 6BT only revs to about approximately 2200 rpm. They are very long stroke engines and they don't like to move all that mass very quickly. If you install a Cummins, be prepared to plan for transmission/transfer and ring gear options that will let you take full advantage of the beast that is a Cummins. More than likely, you'll have to chuck everything underneath your truck and opt for an NV4500, the proper transfer, and Dana 60 axles--with a center-mounted pumpkin in the rear. This may not be a negative for some folks; however, I am one who feels that one of the beauties of the Land Cruiser is the fact that the front and rear pumpkins are both similarly offset--allowing greater ease of choosing and optimun high-clearance "line" when off-roading. It's part of what makes it a Cruiser, IMHO. Good luck!