300 series rumors??? (1 Viewer)

[linuxgod]

Isn’t it more about how they’re made and the quality and the construction and build versus what they look like?

The 100/200-series LC is constructed better than the first/second-gen Sequoia. Fully boxed frame and beefier parts, for instance. But I don't think the Tundra or Sequoia is a slouch either. Not saying an LC won't hold up better for 300k miles abused offroad than a Sequoia, but I don't see the Sequoia rattling and falling apart like a Yukon or Durango under the same conditions.

That said one of the things I like about the LC are the dimensions, and the current Sequoia is stupidly long. The first gen was similar size to an LC. The current gen is just too big for me - PITA to park in the city, too long to comfortably fit in my garage, etc.

 

[linuxgod]

It looks like the 4R is going to have to be the LC replacement at this point with the LC200 being dropped and LC300 looking less likely to come to north america in any form. They've kind of been on a crash course for a while as the LC stays about the same and the 4Runner gets bigger and bigger. But now there's no small BOF SUV anymore where the 4Runner used to live. And I think there's a market for one.

A Highlander already has a longer wheel base than an LC200. It may be the closest replacement for interior size if you don't need to tow or go off road?

I'd consider a 4R again when it has sufficient ability to pull my 6000# trailer and carry the family too. The 4R is a mid-size SUV with a mid-sized engine and towing capacity.

 

[CJF]

the current Sequoia is stupidly long. The first gen was similar size to an LC. The current gen is just too big for me - PITA to park in the city, too long to comfortably fit in my garage, etc.

I'd consider a 4R again when it has sufficient ability to pull my 6000# trailer and carry the family too. The 4R is a mid-size SUV with a mid-sized engine and towing capacity.

Looks like your next tow rig won't be a new Toyota SUV.

 

[linuxgod]

Looks like your next tow rig won't be a new Toyota SUV.

Thankfully at 13k miles per year I figure my 2013 should run another 20 years. I'll see what's available in 2040...

In fairness I almost bought an LX before getting the LC... mostly due to availability around the Chicago area, but if the 300 appears as a Lexus that won't necessarily stop me from buying one in a few years and de-badging it

 

[CJF]

if the 300 appears as a Lexus

I thought the article made it pretty clear that it wouldn't. Maybe I misread.

 

[CJF]

Thankfully at 13k miles per year I figure my 2013 should run another 20 years. I'll see what's available in 2040...

There ya go.

 

[linuxgod]

I thought the article made it pretty clear that it wouldn't. Maybe I misread.

It did. But I've seen mixed info over the last couple months so who knows.

In any case, I said "if"

 

[Jetboy]

I'd consider a 4R again when it has sufficient ability to pull my 6000# trailer and carry the family too. The 4R is a mid-size SUV with a mid-sized engine and towing capacity.

The problem is that it still weighs 4800lbs. So it's as heavy as a GM crew cab 4x4. But only has 270hp. A Yaris GR has 268hp and weighs 2800lbs. Toyota shows more love to the Yaris than any of its BOF suvs. I think that probably is a good indication of how much Toyota cares about any of these models. - zero. I think my next one might be a Bronco. It was really the Bronco that finally convinced me that Toyota has given up on trying to make competitive BOF suvs. Haven't had a non-toyota 4x4 in a lot of years. But Toyota doesn't want to put any effort into it. The same is true for our RX350. I've had it for 6 years. It's about ready for a replacement mostly because we're bored and it's about 100k on the clock - but with what? A new one with of the same thing with the same drive train that it's had for 20 years? Where's the PHEV lexus? Probably going to end up with a Model Y instead.

 

[JohnPW]

The problem is that it still weighs 4800lbs. So it's as heavy as a GM crew cab 4x4. But only has 270hp. A Yaris GR has 268hp and weighs 2800lbs. Toyota shows more love to the Yaris than any of its BOF suvs. I think that probably is a good indication of how much Toyota cares about any of these models. - zero. I think my next one might be a Bronco. It was really the Bronco that finally convinced me that Toyota has given up on trying to make competitive BOF suvs. Haven't had a non-toyota 4x4 in a lot of years. But Toyota doesn't want to put any effort into it. The same is true for our RX350. I've had it for 6 years. It's about ready for a replacement mostly because we're bored and it's about 100k on the clock - but with what? A new one with of the same thing with the same drive train that it's had for 20 years? Where's the PHEV lexus? Probably going to end up with a Model Y instead.

The Bronco looks awesome on paper, I applaud Ford for putting it out there. Maybe Toyota comes out with a small SUV to compete with Wrangler and Bronco, what the FJ Cruiser should have been. The demand is certainly there.

Not sure I’d be complaining about a reliable smooth RX, versus all the busy turbo 4 competitors.

 

[Godwin]

The problem is that it still weighs 4800lbs. So it's as heavy as a GM crew cab 4x4. But only has 270hp. A Yaris GR has 268hp and weighs 2800lbs.

So the Yaris is up to the task of pulling as well a GM crew cab 4X4? Cool. Or am I missing something?

 

[Jetboy]

So the Yaris is up to the task of pulling as well a GM crew cab 4X4? Cool. Or am I missing something?

The 4runner is overweight, under powered, and out of date. The 1gr was fine in 2003 as a base model. It was still okay with updates in 2010. Holding out to 2024... It's not good enough. And Toyota's current bof models are all in the same boat. The Yaris is just an example that Toyota can build fun stuff. If it wants to. The fact that Toyota is sticking with a 4runner that has the power of an economy car but the weight of a full size truck is a reflection of how little Toyota cares about the bof market in North America. I wouldn't hold your breath for a new 4runner to be good at towing given how little effort Toyota is putting into the bof models.

It's not just the suvs though. It's almost everything. The supra. The 86. The "new" IS that still has the same engine I had in 2007. The new Tacoma. It sure feels like Toyota has given up on staying competitive other than a few oddballs like the Yaris and maybe the rav4.

 

[JohnPW]

Stating the obvious but Toyota’s success has always been reliability and longevity, not being interesting or ahead of the curve. There are exceptions like Prius but they’re few & far between. I bought a 4WD Ford Explorer in 1991 and it was so much nicer, more powerful and refined than a 60 or 80 LC, especially when the price is factored in. That Explorer is probably in a junkyard, and the 80 I could have purchased is likely still on the road. Toyota vehicles almost always seem dated versus the competition...their success remains being more reliable than the competition.

That said, I agree the BOF trucks are a joke versus the competition in every way except capability and reliability. TheFord Expedition is so much nicer than a Sequoia, as an obvious example.

 

[MoJ]

Since when has Toyota offered any truck with crazy power? Go buy a Super Duty if you’re focused on having way more than enough to tow whatever.

 

[thatcabledude]

22RE

Weak as water. Loved to death.

 

[Jetboy]

In 2007 the tundra with the trd supercharger was the fastest truck ever tested by motor trend. And it had one of the very first 6 speed transmissions in a full size truck. The 4th gen 4runner was faster than the fastest porsche cayenne.

It wasn't always this way. Toyota has always been class competitive. Every past 4runner generation has been redesigned on a 7 year cycle and they've all had at least 2 engine options. This generation will run 14-15years. And it wasn't a full redesign. It will be over 20 years with the 1gr engine and a750f. The problem is that the world moved on over the last 20+ years and Toyota hasn't lifted a finger to do anything. The parts bin is full of great engines and transmissions. They just never make it out of the parts bin into normal vehicles anymore at Toyota.

The LC didn't have to die a slow death. Toyota could have kept it competitive. Why didn't the LC200 get the V35A on day 1? Why doesn't it have a 10 speed? Or the tundra? It's been out for a decade now.

I don't need cayenne turbo power. But is the ability to maintain highway speed on the mountains to much to ask? Is it too much to ask to get the same mpg in a 4runner with 270hp as I can in suburban with 400hp? Toyota hasn't ever been about the fastest or most powerful, but they've never been this far away either.

 

[JohnPW]

In 2007 the tundra with the trd supercharger was the fastest truck ever tested by motor trend. And it had one of the very first 6 speed transmissions in a full size truck. The 4th gen 4runner was faster than the fastest porsche cayenne.

It wasn't always this way. Toyota has always been class competitive. Every past 4runner generation has been redesigned on a 7 year cycle and they've all had at least 2 engine options. This generation will run 14-15years. And it wasn't a full redesign. It will be over 20 years with the 1gr engine and a750f. The problem is that the world moved on over the last 20+ years and Toyota hasn't lifted a finger to do anything. The parts bin is full of great engines and transmissions. They just never make it out of the parts bin into normal vehicles anymore at Toyota.

The LC didn't have to die a slow death. Toyota could have kept it competitive. Why didn't the LC200 get the V35A on day 1? Why doesn't it have a 10 speed? Or the tundra? It's been out for a decade now.

I don't need cayenne turbo power. But it's the ability to maintain highway speed on the mountains to much to ask? Is it too much to ask to get the same mpg in a 4runner with 270hp as I can in suburban with 400hp? Toyota hasn't ever been about the fastest or most powerful, but they've never been this far away either.

I get your point and don’t disagree completely. But those GM 10 speed tranny’s are failing everywhere. That Suburban with 400hlp will burn a quart of oil every 3000 miles at 100k on the clock because the cylinder cancellation leads to engine wear quickly. I’m all for a middle way with Toyota reliability but a more current product line than we’ve seen in awhile.

 

[MoJ]

In 2007 the tundra with the trd supercharger was the fastest truck ever tested by motor trend. And it had one of the very first 6 speed transmissions in a full size truck. The 4th gen 4runner was faster than the fastest porsche cayenne.

It wasn't always this way. Toyota has always been class competitive. Every past 4runner generation has been redesigned on a 7 year cycle and they've all had at least 2 engine options. This generation will run 14-15years. And it wasn't a full redesign. It will be over 20 years with the 1gr engine and a750f. The problem is that the world moved on over the last 20+ years and Toyota hasn't lifted a finger to do anything. The parts bin is full of great engines and transmissions. They just never make it out of the parts bin into normal vehicles anymore at Toyota.

The LC didn't have to die a slow death. Toyota could have kept it competitive. Why didn't the LC200 get the V35A on day 1? Why doesn't it have a 10 speed? Or the tundra? It's been out for a decade now.

I don't need cayenne turbo power. But is the ability to maintain highway speed on the mountains to much to ask? Is it too much to ask to get the same mpg in a 4runner with 270hp as I can in suburban with 400hp? Toyota hasn't ever been about the fastest or most powerful, but they've never been this far away either.

And they sold 3 supercharged Tundras.

 

[linuxgod]

The 4runner is overweight, under powered, and out of date. The 1gr was fine in 2003 as a base model. It was still okay with updates in 2010. Holding out to 2024... It's not good enough. And Toyota's current bof models are all in the same boat. The Yaris is just an example that Toyota can build fun stuff. If it wants to. The fact that Toyota is sticking with a 4runner that has the power of an economy car but the weight of a full size truck is a reflection of how little Toyota cares about the bof market in North America. I wouldn't hold your breath for a new 4runner to be good at towing given how little effort Toyota is putting into the bof models.

It's not just the suvs though. It's almost everything. The supra. The 86. The "new" IS that still has the same engine I had in 2007. The new Tacoma. It sure feels like Toyota has given up on staying competitive other than a few oddballs like the Yaris and maybe the rav4.

A mechanical engineer once told me engines can have power, efficiency (MPG), low emissions, reliability, and low cost. You just have to select which 3 of those you want.

The 3UR-FE has power and reliability, and emissions are low (relative to the amount of fuel it burns).

The 4R isn't optimized for power. Toyota sells a lot more 4R's in the US than the LC, and the minimal gains they get in MPG are at the expense of power (or at least perceived power - i.e. where in the RPM range you actually get to use it) are more important to meeting CAFE in that case. Yes they could get more power with higher MPG, but like Chevy they would give up reliability to do so...

I haven't owned a 4R since my 3rd gen, though my father had one for a while that I drove. Having owned a 3rd gen which was stupid reliable but in which power could be best described as "adequate" though, the recent models have acceptable power for normal daily use. I can't say how a modern 4R tows but my 3rd gen couldn't maintain 65 on a slight grade when pulling a little popup.

 

[M1911]

If a 6th gen 4R grows another 3-4" I think it could be a suitable LC replacement in terms of off-road ability and family size. One of the big complaints people have going from 4R to LC is just how much smaller the 4R seems in terms of interior space and comfort. Obviously being on mud I don't think many would accept a 4R taking its place but I feel a larger 4Runner with a solid rear axle and hopefully locking rear diff would be more appealing than a grotesquely large Sequoia with independent rear axles and LSD. I feel more hopeful about the 6th gen 4R than I do the 3rd gen Sequoia. TBH though I feel less and less confident in Toyota as a whole the more information we get leaking out.

If you don't need a third row, the 4Runner has a similar usable size -- 80 cubic feet with the 2nd row down, same as LC with 2nd and 3rd row folded. The smaller exterior dimensions of the 4Runner would be an asset off-road.

That said, the interior, drivetrain, and NVH on the LC are far superior to 5th gen 4Runner. I test drove the 5th gen 4Runner three times prior to deciding to buy a used 200 instead.

 

[M1911]

The Bronco looks awesome on paper, I applaud Ford for putting it out there. Maybe Toyota comes out with a small SUV to compete with Wrangler and Bronco, what the FJ Cruiser should have been. The demand is certainly there.

Not sure I’d be complaining about a reliable smooth RX, versus all the busy turbo 4 competitors.

That’s the 4Runner.