2nd or 3rd gen Tundra…?

[acruisinf]

Hi crew - 200 series LC owner here and looking to add a Tundra to the garage.

My knee-jerk reaction is to stay with what I feel is a known quantity, the 2nd gen. I’m familiar (and love) the 5.7L and comfortable relying on it for several hundred thousand miles. Ideally, I would like to find a single-owner 2020 or 2021.

Though, I’m wondering this forum’s thoughts on the 3rd gen so far. How do we feel about the potential long-term reliability of the V6 turbo?

Appreciate y’alls feedback!

 

[Jgrauman]

5.7 all day in my opinion. I've got the 4.7 in my 05 Sequoia and 5.7 in 18 tundra. Turbos are wear items and costly to replace

 

[joseywales]

I’ll agree 100% with J. I have a 2019 and a neighbor just bought a 2022. While his is a nice truck, I would not even for a second consider replacing mine with one. Especially if I were planning on long term ownership. My “new” Toyota is always a lease for my business, and I’m planning on replacing my Tundra in the spring with a LC 250 (1958 edition) or a TRD OR 4Runner if the delivery on the LC runs too late. I’m only considering the turbo/hybrid LC as a lease, and for the apparently fantastic fuel economy and 400 hp 465 lbft.

 

[worldinchaos]

To add a counterpoint, the V35A-FTS twin turbo engine started in a low volume Lexus Sedan (LS I think?) in ~2018, but has since been included by Toyota in all large flagship vehicles, including the 300 series LC, the LX 600, GX550, and Sequoias. If Toyota chose to put it in their landcruisers, they are absolutely touting it for reliability and longevity.

In principle, I do agree that adding more components adds more wear items, but let's face it, vehicles have been getting more complex for 100 years, and on average, reliability has improved dramatically.

 

[kbahus]

There are various of reports of blown engines from main bearing failure with the new model. I dealt with too many European twin turbo V6 engines to believe that Toyota reliability will prevail in this case.

 

[Jetboy]

I would drive both before you decide. I have a 2nd gen. Planned to buy a 3rd gen and when it came in to the dealer I decided not to buy after test driving and bought a 2nd gen.

I like the powertrain. I did not like the build quality fit/finish nor do I like the new cabin design. Interior material quality and tech is a big improvement. Smaller cabin, smaller windows, smaller bed, worse visibility, and less functional design choices in the new truck also were reasons to opt for Gen 2.

I think it's a very close call. At the same price I might have gone with a Gen 3. But the one I had come in was not good enough quality for $68k. The poor fit and finish were the biggest dealbreakers. Had the interior been put together better an the paint looked better I may have bought it. The colors matched but big visible differences in orange peel between panels. It was a mid-year 2022 production truck. Possibly they have improved.

Good luck.

 

[acruisinf]

This is exactly the type of dialog I was hoping for...thanks, crew!

@Jetboy I went to the dealer yesterday (always a massive, disappointing mistake) and had hands-on the 3rd gen. I share a lot of your same sentiment. Of course it's laden with new features and tech (which I don't care for, or need), but I came away thinking it was overall unremarkable. You're right about fit and finish...the Limited with synthetic leather and too much cheap plastic doesn't feel worth $63k. But then again, I suppose that's par for the course across the entire segment these days.

 

[1911garand]

All good points. If I were to purchase any gas turbo vehicle, it would be 100% Toyota.

With my experience as an auto tech (all makes), engineering and testing various power train layouts over the years, I'd shy away from any gasoline turbo engine for long term durability / long term ownership. If a lease, tuning, and high HP / performance is your goal, then by all means gas TURBO!

YMMV - turbo gasoline engines of any make have proven (to me) to be higher maintenance, faster wearing, and have higher repair costs over lifespan.

My vote would be the V8 5.7. Good Luck!

 

[mrsleeve]

I bought a 21 for a reason, as I was waiting to see what the "new one" was going to be like, and the copying of the ford eccoboost model with no option for a big dumb V8 was a NO GO for me.

 

[Fedtime]

I’ve owned a third gen for 2 years, and about 55,000 km. No issues whatsoever, gets slightly better fuel economy than my Tacoma did, tows great (I’ve towed close to 10,000 lbs many times) and pulls like a freight train. I actually think it is a little overpowered, and the turbos could be dialled back if it meant better durability.

How will it hold up over the long term? No idea, and there are a few reports of main bearing failures, but the numbers are relatively small. I’d buy it again. No hesitation.

 

[acruisinf]

Have another question…figure I’ll post here instead of start a new thread.

What is the story with factory diff lock on the 2nd gens? Do only the TRD Off Road or TSS packages have it?
I looked at a 2020 1794 without an upgraded 4x4 package and I swear I didn’t see any diff lock button anywhere.

Thanks!

 

[mrsleeve]

Have another question…figure I’ll post here instead of start a new thread.

What is the story with factory diff lock on the 2nd gens? Do only the TRD Off Road or TSS packages have it?
I looked at a 2020 1794 without an upgraded 4x4 package and I swear I didn’t see any diff lock button anywhere.

Thanks!

Don’t think diff lock has been an option for a long while. Wasn’t an option on the pros even as far as I know

 

[worldinchaos]

Don’t think diff lock has been an option for a long while. Wasn’t an option on the pros even as far as I know

I'm not sure about 2nd gen, but for 3rd gen, TRD Pro and TRD Off-road packages both include rear lockers. 2nd gen definitely had the torsen center diff which was lockable, but while useful, obviously different from a rear locker.

 

[acruisinf]

Thanks guys! 200 series has been my focus lately, so just trying to get my Tundra bearings.

Does anyone have a rundown of the spec differences between the 2nd gen 4x4 upgrade packages (TSS, TRD Off Road)?

 

[Jetboy]

Have another question…figure I’ll post here instead of start a new thread.

What is the story with factory diff lock on the 2nd gens? Do only the TRD Off Road or TSS packages have it?
I looked at a 2020 1794 without an upgraded 4x4 package and I swear I didn’t see any diff lock button anywhere.

Thanks!

Tundra has never had an awd transfer case with a center differential. Tundra has not had an OEM rear differential lock until the 3rd gen (MY22+). TRD OR is a very minimal upgrade. Cheap plastic fuel tank "skid" - really just a rock deflector, and basic bilstein shocks. IIRC they also usually came with 18" wheels instead of 20's in the higher trims that would otherwise come with 20" wheels. The only model that has any meaningful value IMO is the TRD Pro. The TRD Pro fox suspension is very good both on and off road. And it has significantly more rear suspension travel. IIRC it is about 3 inches more travel. Don't remember the difference up front. The TRD Pro rear leaf springs are also different - and TBH pretty damn cool engineering. The second leave has an extra end loop on it that functions as a skid plate of sorts for the front leaf mount bracket.

You can buy the TRD Pro shock set from Toyota for about $2800. Not cheap. But just an idea of what you're looking at for value if you're shopping TRD pro vs Limited or ??

It is possible to swap at least the early 2nd gens to the Sequoia/LC Aisin awd transfer case. Cost seems to run about $1k for a transfer case, ECU, dash light, and switch. I'm not sure if it's do-able on the 2014+ that switched to a BorgWarner transfer case. Everything is different on the 14+ and runs through the CANBUS so it's not a stand alone ECU for the BW transfer and that means that it's a lot more challenging to make the truck communicate with the transfer case if you were to swap to the Aisin AWD unit. This is all second hand info. I have not spent any time looking at electronics of them to see if there's an obvious solution (to someone with a lot of electrical component background). It won't be plug and play. Most systems however are simple enough that we could come up with a simple intermediate circuit board controller to interface between them. It's just a matter of having time to figure out and design one.

Also - ATRAC is not switchable and is automatic in 4lo. ATRAC on the tundra is very weak compared to all other Toyotas I've owned. It's the opposite of aggressive. Don't expect it to work nearly as well as your LC. My 5th gen 4Runner was night and day better than the Tundra is. If I were going to work on an electronic mod for the Tundra - this would be at the top of my list. I'd love to figure out how to add ATRAC and MTS/Crawl from the LC200 to the gen2 tundra.

 

[Gold Boy]

Tundra has never had an awd transfer case with a center differential. Tundra has not had an OEM rear differential lock until the 3rd gen (MY22+). TRD OR is a very minimal upgrade. Cheap plastic fuel tank "skid" - really just a rock deflector, and basic bilstein shocks. IIRC they also usually came with 18" wheels instead of 20's in the higher trims that would otherwise come with 20" wheels. The only model that has any meaningful value IMO is the TRD Pro. The TRD Pro fox suspension is very good both on and off road. And it has significantly more rear suspension travel. IIRC it is about 3 inches more travel. Don't remember the difference up front. The TRD Pro rear leaf springs are also different - and TBH pretty damn cool engineering. The second leave has an extra end loop on it that functions as a skid plate of sorts for the front leaf mount bracket.

You can buy the TRD Pro shock set from Toyota for about $2800. Not cheap. But just an idea of what you're looking at for value if you're shopping TRD pro vs Limited or ??

It is possible to swap at least the early 2nd gens to the Sequoia/LC Aisin awd transfer case. Cost seems to run about $1k for a transfer case, ECU, dash light, and switch. I'm not sure if it's do-able on the 2014+ that switched to a BorgWarner transfer case. Everything is different on the 14+ and runs through the CANBUS so it's not a stand alone ECU for the BW transfer and that means that it's a lot more challenging to make the truck communicate with the transfer case if you were to swap to the Aisin AWD unit. This is all second hand info. I have not spent any time looking at electronics of them to see if there's an obvious solution (to someone with a lot of electrical component background). It won't be plug and play. Most systems however are simple enough that we could come up with a simple intermediate circuit board controller to interface between them. It's just a matter of having time to figure out and design one.

Also - ATRAC is not switchable and is automatic in 4lo. ATRAC on the tundra is very weak compared to all other Toyotas I've owned. It's the opposite of aggressive. Don't expect it to work nearly as well as your LC. My 5th gen 4Runner was night and day better than the Tundra is. If I were going to work on an electronic mod for the Tundra - this would be at the top of my list. I'd love to figure out how to add ATRAC and MTS/Crawl from the LC200 to the gen2 tundra.

"If I were going to work on an electronic mod for the Tundra - this would be at the top of my list. I'd love to figure out how to add ATRAC and MTS/Crawl from the LC200 to the gen2 tundra."

That would be very excellent. Great idea.

 

[Jetboy]

"If I were going to work on an electronic mod for the Tundra - this would be at the top of my list. I'd love to figure out how to add ATRAC and MTS/Crawl from the LC200 to the gen2 tundra."

That would be very excellent. Great idea.

I don't know what it would take to do. I haven't even started to look at it. I don't really off-road my Tundra, so it's not high on my to do list. Might be easier to just add a pair of lockers. But for what I do - a high functioning ATRAC would do everything I'd need. And the LC200 shares most of the same stuff. I just don't know if it is worth it.

For anyone who's curious - you can see how poorly ATRAC works in this Toyota marketing video:


vs the oldest version of ATRAC in the LC100 that's night and day better:

 

[Flight2k5]

There are various of reports of blown engines from main bearing failure with the new model. I dealt with too many European twin turbo V6 engines to believe that Toyota reliability will prevail in this case.

The 5.7 had teething issues when it came out