2006 LC With or Without AHC and Intro...

[Kneel]

Hi, all. I'm new to Land Cruisers but not new to wheeling. I've wheeled Land ROVERS primarily for the last 20 years. The atmosphere on the 100 series board is eerily familiar to that of the Rover groups. Seems you suffer from the same "how can I fit 35's" malady...

Anyhow...
I'm in the market for a new vehicle. What I love about my Rovers is their flexibility. They at home as a daily driver as they are in driving 2300 miles from NY/NJ to Moab, running Poison Spider Mesa and Pritchett Canyon, then driving the 2300 miles home(yes, I've done that trip twice), to taking the family to VT skiing and having the ability to get a days wheeling in as well. That's what I'm looking for in the LC. As I see it, it's the only viable and capeable option as far as new vehicles are concerned.

So...
Here in the northeast there is only 1 option package available which includes AVS/AHC. My only other options would be finding a new 2005 without AVS/AHC, special order which can take a year, or purchase new in North Carolina or points south as you can get them in the southeast without AHC. So I need to make a decision. I hear the LX guys are happy with the system and the added bonus of an easy lift in nice, however experience and instinct tell me to keep it simple.

I guess my question is this. I've read the faq's and searched but haven't really found the answer I've been looking for. How dependable has the AHC setup been in the long run and through hard use? Whichever truck I get will be on 33's the day I take delivery and, knowing me, will be on 35's shortly thereafter. Troubleshooting a flakey hydro assist system on the trail is not something I'd care to experience. Your input is greatly appreciated.

I can turn a wrench, weld, and I'm not afraid to sawzall. I hope to be a contributor to this board.

Kneel

 

[hoser]

Welcome, Kneel. I would definitely buy an '06 over an '05 for the engine upgrade and front end redesign. I'd like to know the price difference between a special order non-AHC Land Cruiser vs one with AHC that is already on the lot. If the difference wasn't too much, I'd opt for the AHC set-up and then have the option to switch over to the standard suspension if I was disatisfied.

Personally, I like the AHC system but would consider swapping it out in the future for longer travel shocks. The most common failure item in the AHC system is the actuators. The vast majority of the users on this board do not have the AHC suspension and so its difficult to say how relaible they are under harsh conditions.

 

[ryanjl]

Christo (sleeoffroad.com) took his LX through some rough terrain, never had a single problem with the suspension.

http://www.sleeoffroad.com/technical/lx470/tz_lx470_main.htm

The only problem that I remember seeing on here are sensors/actuators going bad, but that's normally associated with mileage and age than durability.

I know the P38 airbag suspensions are notorious for failing, but there's nothing similar occuring in the AHC LX470s and Land Cruisers.

To me, it's the perfect blend of street/highway comfort and off-road ability.

 

[tabraha]

I agree with what the others have said. The most important part being that there are no "problem" areas with the AHC. The failures that have been reported have been extremely limited and have been with older, higher mileage versions. You would have no issues with a brand new cruiser's AHC for many years/miles. I've abused my AHC pretty well, sunk it in mud plenty, flexed it out routinely and it bounces right back. Ive even overloaded the AHC so that it could not raise b/c I was stupid enough to throw a rediculous amount of tongue weight on it and once I removed the weight the system bounced right back. Whoever designed the system deserves a pat on the back.

If you would have told me that I would be driving around in a vehicle with 124k miles on it with a hydraulic suspension and not worry about it I would have said you are crazy. I fully expect that eventually I will have to change an actuator in the future but I have no problems with replacing a part in the time/mileage span 125,000/6year time span. It can't last forever, can it?

I also haven't changed the AHC fluid since I bought it. I really need to quit procrastinating on that!!!!!

 

[SINCITY100]

Welcome Kneel..

I dont have AHC, nor do I wish I had it...but if you did purchase an AHC-equipped L/C, and then decided to ditch (remove) it later....

Think of it this way...You have a set of "LIKE NEW" actuators to sell to somebody else in this forum when theirs go bad !

The thing I wasnt very impressed about the AHC was how much crap (and weight) it had to make work...Good lord, have u seen a pic of all that stuff on the frame rails for that system ?!...

I know there has been some discussion about adding sliders w/AHC because its very difficult to place a center brace (for the sliders) with all that AHC hardware in the way, but Christo does feel that Slees sliders are strong enough w/o the center brace...so, ??..

This probably doesnt help much, ...but I just wanted to chime in

 

[siglo]

I've been experimenting with AHC for the past year.. I can't really say anything about it's reliability other than it has not failed so far after about 40,000 miles use and abuse.. I really liked it when my LC was stock.. after adding a lot of weight I've had to try different springs and torsion bars to get it back to my liking.. I think I have finally found the right spring (OME860) and I'm happy with it again.. I would second hoser's recommendation on the 06 whether you decide to go the AHC route or not..

 

[Kneel]

Thanks for the feedback. It's good to hear about the rubustness of the system and lack of issues. What I expected from Toyota engineers.

The price difference between the two is less than I expected. $800 more for an 06 with AHC/AVS on the lot vs special ordering locally or purchasing in the southeast. The difference is probably greater as far as MSRP goes, however I could get a truck on the lot for litterally pennies over invioce. I think the difference is negateted for the inconvenience of waiting for a special order or traveling to pick up9or hafe shipped(probably between $400-$800) and not having a responsive dealer when I have the truck serviced locally because I didn't purchase the truck off their lot.

 

[Kneel]

...I know the P38 airbag suspensions are notorious for failing, but there's nothing similar occuring in the AHC LX470s and Land Cruisers.

To me, it's the perfect blend of street/highway comfort and off-road ability.

There are coil conversion kits for the P38 similar to those for the Classic. But that is the prime reason I stayed clear of the Rangie and bought a Disco instead almost 10 years ago. Just 4 coils and no Rover electronics...

That balance is what I'm looking for and what it would be replacing in the Disco.

 

[Kneel]

Welcome Kneel..

know there has been some discussion about adding sliders w/AHC because its very difficult to place a center brace (for the sliders) with all that AHC hardware in the way, but Christo does feel that Slees sliders are strong enough w/o the center brace...so, ??..

This probably doesnt help much, ...but I just wanted to chime in

Thanks, it does help. Brings up some questions I need to address before a wheeling/camping trip to Canada I have planned in August. I'll need to contact Slee and see if I they'll have a winch bumper, sliders and a rear bumper available and tested prior to the trip...

 

[Kneel]

As far as the auto load leveling goes, will the system handle the additional weight of front and rear bumpers, winch, sliders, roof rack, oversized spare, jerry cans, high lift, toolbox, camping gear...well you get the idea? Will I need to put in heavy duty torsion bars and springs? CAN you change the springs and t-bars with AHC equiped trucks?

 

[hoser]

Something like this? Talk to Christo, he seems to have had the most loaded AHC cruiser. You can change the springs and T-bars just like you would a non AHC 100. Though your choice of which spring/T-bar might be different since the AHC shocks also share part of the load.

More pics at:
http://sleeoffroad.com/technical/lx470/tz_lx470_main.htm

 

[hkeller]

Welcome!

Good to have you here, even though I am a rookie too. We have a 2000 LX, with about 70,000 miles on it. I just replaced the both front damping force actuator accumulators, wow that is a mouth full. However, I have heard this was a more common problem in 2000, than other years. After replacing the fronts and not the rears, I can tell the rears have lost a bit of their damping effect. I am afraid they may go soon.

If they do, and I have the money, I am going to strongly consider dumping the entire system and going with a convential suspension. As I will proably keep this vehicle 15 years, I am not concerned about resale.

On the other hand, the AHC equiped 100s ride GREAT. There is a big diffence in the ride quality, as compared to the standard 100s. If you are going to sell the car before you get 100,000 miles on it, you'll probably be okay. If you are going to keep it for the long haul, I think you would be better with the standard suspension.

 

[e9999]

Welcome, soon-to-be Rover-recovery-vehicle driver!

 

[Kneel]

Thats about right... For example, one year on the way out to Las Cruces, I weighed the loaded Disco on a truck scale. 5260lbs!!! With myself and a passenger inside it's pushing over 5600. When I got home I weighed the unloaded truck. 4752lbs. That's over 500 lbs of tools, recovery gear, spares, camping equipment, etc. Thats easily what I'll have in Canada. Add a couple of kayaks(150lbs) and additional spare as well(100lbs) as I don't expect it to be easy finding 18" 33's or 35's easily in Labrador if I happen to kill a couple of tires...

 

[hoser]

You can buy earlier 16" wheels on eBay for $2-300/set. They will fit the later models just fine. The first thing you'll notice about the 100 is the weight. It starts at 5425lbs dry. With all the armor, winch and rack, etc... you'll be well over 6k lbs before you even load your gear. Add 500lbs of gear and you're probably near 6600lbs.

 

[Kneel]

Welcome, soon-to-be Rover-recovery-vehicle driver!

Hey now...don't make me post pics of me winching a friends 80 all over Uhwarrie! That spare tire left "snail tracks" everywhere. Besides, we're not gonna have time with all the stuck H2's and H3's blocking the trails...

 

[Kneel]

Nice. So 16" rims WILL fit? I thought I read somewhere that the 16's barely clear the calipers and was not advised. That would certainly simplify things.