2002-03 LC/LX470 as tow rig, family truckster?

[smeagol]

Some background - the wife and I are considering an 02-03 LC/LX470 for doing some cross country towing. Camper would be max of ~3600lb loaded, with brakes, of the fiberglass variety (www.escapetrailer.com), so not as aerodynamic as a boat or popup camper. We'd like to be able to carry 3-7 people on such excursions. Based on my research, it doesn't sound like an LC/LX470 would break a sweat with this usage. The durability of the platform goes without saying, and is a big part of my interest in this vehicle. I am mechanically inclined, with a history of Jeeps and turbo vehicles; my renewed interest in the Toyota brand is after my friends and I have had some success racing an 1989 Toyota Cressida powered by a 1UZ V8. Well, I should clarify, our racing hasn't really been successful, but I've been impressed by Toyota engineering

We are limited by budget, which is why we're pretty much limited to the 02-03 range. 03's seem to be harder to come by in our range but it would be nice to have with the 5spd auto. My 2nd vehicle choice is a 4th gen 4Runner with the V8.

My two main concerns are reliability and fuel economy.

1) Reliability - the platform itself has proven itself durable - but the vehicles we are considering are 10 years old. Assuming decent maintenance, I'd assume the core mechanicals won't cause us problems. Also, I don't know the exact values, but in North America, the production numbers aren't all that high; I worry finding parts and/or people with experience working on these vehicles could be a problem. I'd like to avoid financing a newer vehicle, but if that results in taking on an SUV that would become a headache... I may reconsider. Of concern are some of the tidbits that are rare but important (ie LX's Nav/HVAC display, AHC, AVC, etc). None of these will leave me stranded most likely, but I'll definitely need to repair in the event of problems.

To the point - will upkeep, maintenance, repairs become a burden?


2) Fuel economy - these vehicles get horrible mileage, this isn't news. I believe ratings are 13/15 MPG. However, it seems the more economical tow vehicles we would consider otherwise (Toyota 4Runner, Highlander, Honda Pilot, etc) get 17-22 MPG under normal usage and 10-16 MPG when towing (and closer to the former number under the worst conditions). I believe the LC/LX470 economy won't decrease to the same percentage when used for hauling. Number-wise, it seems the newer, lighter vehicles get 30-50% worse mileage when hauling. If the LC/LX get 30-50% worse mileage when hauling, we are talking 7-9 mpg potentially. If I put a lot of miles under my belt in 10 years, the savings in fuel alone would justify purchasing a more expensive, economical vehicle. There is a lot of data available on the newer/economical vehicles, but I haven't found as much information on the LC/LX's.

Any feedback on the fuel economy while towing?


Thanks in advance for any information and advice.
Brian

 

[TeCKis300]

Welcome to the boards smeagol.

Sounds like you've been giving this some good consideration. Given your towing needs, I would recommend no less than an '03 for the 5 speed transmission. The platform is quiet hefty in itself and is not known to be the fleetest. The 5 speed will help greatly and may even redeem itself in gas mileage for the amount of miles it sounds like you're going to be doing.

There may be another platform worth your consideration given that you mentioned the 4Runner. Look into the GX470. It's essentially the same driveline as the LC/LX in a lighter duty package that's capable of towing the escape trailer, but with just about the same breadth of capabilities and same legendary reliability. Being that it's the same motor, it will leave more power and mpg on the table for the load. You may even be able to afford buying a newer model that has both the 5-speed and perhaps even VVTi ('05 and up). It's much roomier and comfortable than a 4Runner and will still seat 8 and almost the amount of space (slightly less width) as the LC/LX. And it doesn't give up any comfort to even the LC/LX really.

 

[TXLX100]

Having owned a 4th generation 4Runner, I don't know if that would suit your needs if you have more than 4 passengers in the vehicle, it gets cramped pretty quick. It's a great vehicle, and I've driven both the V6 and V8 and both are exceptional. I got about 20/25 in my 2007, 2wd V6. I think the V8 is rated a 2-3 MPG below that.

1) If well taken care of, a ten year old 100 or 4Runner should still be very reliable. I don't hesitate to take my '98 LX any where I want to go. Parts are widely available, the Toyota / Lexus dealer system is exceptional. In most cases, if dealer doesn't have a part, it can have it by the next morning. (They may not be the cheapest parts though, but well worth it) In my opinion, my LX doesn't cost all that much to operate (other than fuel). It needs regular maintenance, but any vehicle does. It may be a little more expensive to service due to re-pack of wheel bearings, additional drive line fluids, etc, but if you consider how much more reliable the core components of the vehicle are, its worth it to maintain. You will want to find a dealer or a shop that specializes in Toyota (or do it yourself), this isn't a vehicle I'd let jiffy lube touch, other than maybe an oil change if you don't have another option. Lastly, if you ever sell your 100, you will get good money for it if you take care of it. It seems like they hit a floor price after so many miles, 4runners, I have no idea how well they hold value long term.

2) At first look, 100s get horrible gas mileage. But when you think about it, when compared to other vehicles, it's massive in terms of weight (due to better body construction, additional drive line components, etc). For me, I wouldn't tow anything bigger than a pop-up camper with a Pilot or highlander. It sounds like you are kind of stuck with a SUV if you need to haul up to 7 passengers. Have you considered a Sequoia also?

 

[smeagol]

@TeCKis300 - I was aware of the GX470, but didn't really consider it as it seemed like it'd gain me much over the 4Runner. Just doing some initial research, it seems to have more comfort for rear passengers, which is good. I'll have to check these out as well.

@TXLX100 - The Pilot & Highlander have been used with success by folks with the same camper I'd like to get. I am in the same camp as you though, and would rather use a more 'substantial' vehicle for this task that can do so for hundreds of thousands of miles. As in, why I'm here and not in a GM or Honda forum I've considered the Sequoia and drove one. I'd prefer a slightly smaller vehicle, and many people were of the opinion that the quality is lower in the Sequoia vs 4Runner/GX/LC/LX, as the Sequoia was (is?) North America only. Also, not a #1 priority, but I'd like to be able to do some light offroading on trips.

Thanks for the feedback thus far.

 

[TeCKis300]

@TeCKis300 - I was aware of the GX470, but didn't really consider it as it seemed like it'd gain me much over the 4Runner. Just doing some initial research, it seems to have more comfort for rear passengers, which is good. I'll have to check these out as well.

I had an '05 V8 4Runner 4x4. I mention the GX because I find it much closer in function to the LC/LX than the 4Runner (my parents have an '05 GX) by virtue of its larger/taller interior with 3rd row. The drivers seat is 10x more comfortable as I found the 4Runners to be too close to the floor for comfortable long trip driving.

That said, my vote is still the hundy . I'm just not sure an older one will meet your towing and fuel economy needs.

 

[marshotel]

^^ x2 what TECKis said ^^

The 4Runner just is not in the same the league as the Land Cruiser or either of the Lexus vehicles in terms of comfort, fit and finish. On paper, it looks like the 4Runner should be pretty similar- some 4runner models have the V8 with fulltime 4WD and heated leather seats-- but the ergonomics of the 4Runner (fung shui or whatever) are not the same as the LC. I have heard this is often the case for taller drivers such as myself. The 4runner just does not fit right if you are > 6 feet tall.

The 5-speed transmission in the 03+ Land cruisers would be a great feature for towing, but I would not dismiss the older A343 (4-speed) without driving it. That 4-speed transmission was the gold standard until 2003, and I think you'll find that you can tow just fine with the 4-speed.

With regard to ongoing maintenance expenses- it just depends on the individual vehicle; if you get a 2006 that has been hammered in a harsh climate, the maintenance costs will be more than for an older vehicle that has been carefully maintained and kept in the garage. It just depends on how well the previous owner cared for the vehicle. In general, the maintenance on my Land Cruisers has been very reasonable- they are easy to work on, and the critical parts are designed to give plenty of warning before failure so they don't leave you stranded.

My advice is to widen your search to include 1998 to 2005 model Land Cruisers, and wait for a well-maintained example within your budget. Don't worry too much about features, or 5-speed vs. 4-speed. Just wait for one that looks like it was owned by a dentist a kept in the garage and you will not regret buying it.

with regard to fuel economy-- I have been getting 17-18 mpg from my 1998 LC on highway trips back and forth between Anchorage and Seward -- it's all about setting the cruise control and maintaining constant speed. Acceleration is what uses fuel on these vehicles. If you focus on maintaining a constant speed then the fuel economy is not too bad in the V8 Land Cruisers.

 

[TXLX100]

Dont get me wrong, Honda builds nice cars, just nothing heavy duty enough for me. GM on the other hand (awful)....

I found my 2007 sport 4Runner to be pretty comfortable, more so than the LX driver seat as far as the lumbar goes. You sit closer in the floor in 4Runner, like a car, and I found it to be more comfortable as a taller person. Seems like most older model foreign cars could have bigger seats in my opinion. A V8 4Runner should be capable, but its not a LX or LC.

I am not a fan of the previous Gen GX. I drove one for a while. The rear suspension runs on air I believe, problems with air injection pump on engine, door claddings are never right once they start falling off, the driver seat is not big enough for a person over 6 feet tall, and an underpowered AC system. More of a vehicle for a lady in my opinion.

Previous gen Sequioa's are not all that nice, but I'm sure they get it done when it comes to hauling people and some towing. It's a giant Tundra SUV

 

[CreeperSleeper]

In regards to MPG's, on flat hwy I can maintain 65mph in OD while towing my 40 and get around 12 mpg. However, as soon as I see a hill, that is down to 8 or 9. The only time I get lower than that is if I'm not patient and feel the need to maintain 60 mph... BTW, my trailer weighs about 6000 lbs.

 

[LXPearl]

The LX is best for towing and the AC is the best I have had in any vehicle. I get 14 mpg avg in LX and got about 17 in the V8 4Runner. The 5spd would be nicer, but the 4 spd is good also. I have gotten about 10-12 mpg in LX towing about 4000 lbs. Did not try towing with the 4Rnr - chose the LC or LX for that.