2 pinion diff for mild wheeling

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cc93cruiser

cc93cruiser

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I know this topic has been beatin to death, but bare with me, I'm a hundy newb.. And yes I've searched lots-this is why I'm posting this because I've gotten a bit paranoid. I feel like the first time out offroad on a dirt road and I'm gonna destroy my ring gear or spider gears... My question is will my front diff do just fine for very mild wheeling such as driving through back country fire roads, maybe some steep hill climps with some small rocky terrain? Or will this front diff leave me in shame? I mean I've read some reports on forum members breaking front diff the instant that there is slippage in the front while wheeling. I am no throttle junkie by any means and I dont plan on obstacles any harder than an old logging rd in a national forest... Just want to hear from other 99 owners that lightly wheel their rig and still have the stock 2 pinion diff intact....
 
Also any "What not to do's" while wheelin on a stock 2 pinion diff ...
 
Since I just went through this not too long ago, I'll give you my perspective. I have a 2004 (4pinion) however, my break was at the ring gear and not the spider gears. The carrier which the ring gear bolts to allows for deflection under load and the ring gear let go (broken teeth). My spider gears (4pinion) were all still intact.

The whole thing was a big learning experience for me once I started pulling things apart and seeing how everything works. I couldn't find any splits or cracks on the carrier itself and I thought I would. That would show a clear indication of the carrier flexing. But, we're talking 1000's of an inch. I think that as the gears wear over time and preload tolerances are changed there is more of a chance for this type of break. My truck had 120k. The trail I was on is considered moderate but not overly difficult. I'm pretty certain it was my front wheel lifting and then finding traction under light power that caused the break. Not unlike what you are talking about doing when you say steep hill climbs on loose footing. The rock garden I was in was mostly beachball sized rocks. Lots of climbing/slipping/grabbing. I wasn't under excessive power or bouncing up and down.

I don't think you can prepare to not break the front diff. Whether its the 2 or 4 pinion type. Some may break sooner than others, some may never break at all. Each one will have slightly different preload settings from the factory. This may contribute to the eventual failure as things wear and the shock load of a spinning wheel that suddenly finds traction is transferred through the front end.

I lock the front pretty often on the trail now, even though I have a much beefier carrier and would probably be safe allowing ATRAC to do its thing. IMO, any time there is a chance of lifting a front wheel, even slightly, the front locker should be engaged if possible.

After my learning experience, I wouldn't own a 100 (any year) without having a front locker. It would be my absolute first upgrade. Unless I lived where it didn't snow and the vehicle would never see anything other than pavement. A the very least, familiarize yourself with isolating the front diff so you can get home in 2wd in case you break on the trail.

EDIT: I should also add, I went a long time without any problems at all. So have many others. Make sure you know how to get yourself home in 2wd, and keep doing what you mentioned wanting to do and fix it if/when it breaks.
 
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swapping in a front locker = insurance/investment

not doing so = gambling

i wish money pushed to wall street was as easy of a decision :D
 
<will my front diff do just fine for very mild wheeling such as driving through back country fire roads, maybe some steep hill climps with some small rocky terrain?>

Yes , you will be fine ! Don't do 35 inch tires , stay will 33 but you will do fine. There are lots of folks on here who have wheeled the 98 - 99 and have not had any issues...
 
stock front diff 98 here, 220k miles, just finished 4200 mile road trip with 500 of it off road. Im not afraid to take mine on hard trails but i also don drive it hard on those hard trails.

I think it comes down to being smart about choosing the line, being easy on throttle and dragging the brake a bit to mitigate wheel spin...and a bit of luck.
 
re_guderian said:
Wow. This thread's all sunshine and glitter... :frown:
Click to expand...

I find it interesting given how much money is typically spent on other mods, some more cosmetic than not, how much consternation is involved with the decision of whether or not to install the front locker on a 100-Series.

For most of us the front locker cost pales, if done proactively before damage occurs, in comparison to what gets spent on these rigs.
 
spressomon said:
I find it interesting given how much money is typically spent on other mods, some more cosmetic than not, how much consternation is involved with the decision of whether or not to install the front locker on a 100-Series.

For most of us the front locker cost pales, if done proactively before damage occurs, in comparison to what gets spent on these rigs.
Click to expand...

True... but does it fail more than the A343F transmission? The ignition cylinder? Brake master cylinder? :lol: the 100's have a few, really expensive, fatal flaws (all at a low level of occurrence). Replacing a functioning diff is just such an un-Cruiser-like thing to do, even though it intellectually makes sense based on increased cost of replacement after failure, v the other killer failures, which, while expensive, cost about the same pre or post failure...
 
I pulled my un-broken 2 pin out at about 180kmi so they can cover some ground.

The thing is that if it grenades it can be more expensive to fix than if you upgrade before it grenades.

I think for what you are planning you may well be fine. Imagine all the casual off-roaders who have wheeled a 100 series and don't know what a diff is let alone that theirs may be weak. Our data set here is skewed by the fact that many members are aggressive users and we brake stuff more than the casual user.

The other thing to remember is that it's pretty easy to disconnect the front diff and drive home in 2wd, getting home is big in my book.
 
spressomon said:
I find it interesting given how much money is typically spent on other mods, some more cosmetic than not, how much consternation is involved with the decision of whether or not to install the front locker on a 100-Series.

For most of us the front locker cost pales, if done proactively before damage occurs, in comparison to what gets spent on these rigs.
Click to expand...

That is a good point, lots of nice bumpers out there that have never touched a rock or lights that don't get used on trucks that still have 2-pinion diffs and old heater hose T's. You can buy handful of ARB lockers for what a set of bumpers cost.

However at the end of the day most of us WANT these trucks more than we actually NEED these trucks so I can't bash cosmetic mods too much. After all there are guys on here who have builds much more costly than mine but who don't really wheel much.
 
I have a 1998 Land Cruiser with the original front differential it came with from the factory.

It has done 190,000 miles on ice, potholes, and ditches; all sorts of paved and unpaved roads in all sorts of conditions.

It has not been pampered, nor has it been abused.

It works fine and I have no plans to mess with it.
 
re_guderian said:
you can't do much body work for what sliders and a rear bumper cost. it's all money, just a matter of priorities.
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I don't need body work on a trail truck, I has hammer.
 
I've done some technical stuff in my 99 2 pinion diff. Now that I have a winch, I will use it more to avoid the front end bouncing and causing the diff to grenade. I do have plans to replace it with a locked ARB, but those have been put aside while I first take some cool trips. Most remote trips I do are not alone, so worst case scenario, I pull the front drive shaft and get towed out over the hard stuff....
 
paflytyer said:
Most everyone who broke on the trail was thinking the same thing.
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I bet. same story for those whose tranny's make "that noise", or whose key spins in the ignition, or whose brake pedal suddenly goes to the floor. It's all working great, until it ain't... on a '99-'00 , you could easily drop 10 grand on things that are known to break (or better said, have broken on a non-trivial number of other cruisers) and leave you straded without warning...
 
paflytyer said:
Most everyone who broke on the trail was thinking the same thing.
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Totally. if it breaks, then I will fix it...........

If it breaks "on the trail", then I will remove the front driveshaft, lock the center diff and drive it home in 2wd, then I will fix it.

I guess if it breaks in a place where 4wd is absolutely essential to get out, then I will remove the front driveshaft, have somebody tow me through the tough part, drive it home in 2wd, then I will fix it.

...it could certainly happen, but until then I will save my money and be happy with my 15 year old Land Cruiser because there's nothing wrong with it.
 
My perspective regarding the prudence of adding a front locker to a 100-Series admittedly is skewed a bit. I was standing next to Rusty and his '98 when his front diff blew.

He's an experienced wheeler, fully knows how to apply judicious throttle and the wet grass step was fairly innocuous (or so we thought :rolleyes:). Fortunately I had my left-over four-thirty and that's what went in along with an ARB locker. No further incidents for the front diff post mod. Add to this the rash of early and late model year 100's that ripped up front diffs several years ago on Denver area pavement apart of an ice storm...including one of Christo's IIRC.

And you get the added benefit, for on-trail work, of the front locker which has proven beneficial especially given how 100's IFS suspension unloads weight bias rearward on climbs. So really its about protection of the front R&P along with enhanced performance for the rig that weighs in this decision...assuming its more than a pavement/gravel road pounder of course.
 
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