1KZ-TE - Replacing the turbo. Standard vs CCT High Flow? (4 Viewers)

[KiwiBogan]

I'm struggling to understand how a high flow turbo can improve performance in the 1KZ-TE engine without adding in more fuel? Remembering 1KZ-TE's ECU is non-programmable so requires a chip in order to do any kind of tuning or add fuel. Currently saving up for a Unichip so getting the high flow turbo will knock my savings back a bit. Can someone explain how the extra "up 15% more air flow" benefits the 1KZ engine? Should I just stick with the stock turbo ad keep saving for the unichip? Or Both?

Thanks in advance for any advice

CCT Stage One Billet Hi-Flow CT12B Turbocharger To Suit Toyota Toyota Hilux / Prado 1KZ-TE 3.0L

CCT Stage One Billet Turbocharger To Suit Toyota Toyota Hilux / Prado 1KZ-TE 3.0L All CCT Stage One Turbochargers are assembled, balanced and air flow calibrated in house. Using slim hub technology and extended base tip design will increase the flow rate of the turbo up to 15%. The billet wheel...

cctturbo.com.au

 

[RyanMiller]

Diesels run better with any additional air. stoic is quite rich and usually smokey. the benefit is a modern turbo is they are designed with computer aid and modern materials. that increases the efficiency of the turbo itself. basically for the same fuel you get more boost. If you don't add more fuel you will simply get better economy

 

[KiwiBogan]

Thanks! Pretty sure my 1kz is not running rich at all. No smoke (other than a quick puff at start up - especially if I dont glow the plugs) but it runs pretty clean and smoke free even with my foot down up hills. When winding my current stock turbo boost up, the usable boosting seems to plateau about 16 psi (maybe a tad less) but the turbo can keep going up to ~22psi if I let it. It feels like the fueling stops at about 15 - 16 psi. Note: I do have a 3 bar map sensor so it *shouldnt* be the factory ECU fuel cut kicking in... So basically I feel like it already is running lean and needs extra fuel to match the extra boost of the turbo is providing.

I might now add I have bitten the bullet and purchased a CCT Stage One High Flow Turbo. I figured if it doesnt provide much benefit now, it will when I eventually get this truck Unichippped which is next on the list. Plus I've since spoken to 2 fellow 1KZ owners who have installed one and say it def makes a big difference going high flow (even without extra fuelling) so I guess I'll just have to wait and see for myself. I just wish there was more conversation online about this. I can see 70 odd people have bought the 1kz-te compatible CCT turbo which I have bought through the ebay shop but no reviews anywhere?

 

[toddm]

You definitely need to add more fuel to get more power. Cranking up the boost on the stock engine may get you a little bit more if its been limiting fueling because of lack of air. Have you looked into adjusting the spill valve? I've heard it can make a big difference but I've never had to try it since I have a tunable ECU:

My slow '78 Mustard Yellow build

I've been driving it again for about 2 weeks. I got the fj80 power steering installed and got the Hydraulic winch installed. I didn't take any pics of the progress, I kept forgetting the camera. THe 1KZ-TE has an idle up feature which has been nice the last few mornings. Just push a button and...

forum.ih8mud.com

I'm currently running about 18 or 19Psi, I don't remember which and I've had it as high as 21Psi. I think its getting out of its efficiency zone at that boost and it needs a better turbo. I have been thinking about getting a turbo from one of the 3.0L VW TDI's as they have much newer technology than the CT12B. I don't need to make it into a racecar so I've put it off. I do have a full 3" exhaust including a muffler (because I'm old) and a front mount intercooler.

Thanks! Pretty sure my 1kz is not running rich at all. No smoke (other than a quick puff at start up - especially if I dont glow the plugs) but it runs pretty clean and smoke free even with my foot down up hills. When winding my current stock turbo boost up, the usable boosting seems to plateau about 16 psi (maybe a tad less) but the turbo can keep going up to ~22psi if I let it. It feels like the fueling stops at about 15 - 16 psi. Note: I do have a 3 bar map sensor so it *shouldnt* be the factory ECU fuel cut kicking in... So basically I feel like it already is running lean and needs extra fuel to match the extra boost of the turbo is providing.

I might now add I have bitten the bullet and purchased a CCT Stage One High Flow Turbo. I figured if it doesnt provide much benefit now, it will when I eventually get this truck Unichippped which is next on the list. Plus I've since spoken to 2 fellow 1KZ owners who have installed one and say it def makes a big difference going high flow (even without extra fuelling) so I guess I'll just have to wait and see for myself. I just wish there was more conversation online about this. I can see 70 odd people have bought the 1kz-te compatible CCT turbo which I have bought through the ebay shop but no reviews anywhere?

 

[KiwiBogan]

You definitely need to add more fuel to get more power. Cranking up the boost on the stock engine may get you a little bit more if its been limiting fueling because of lack of air. Have you looked into adjusting the spill valve? I've heard it can make a big difference but I've never had to try it since I have a tunable ECU:

My slow '78 Mustard Yellow build

I've been driving it again for about 2 weeks. I got the fj80 power steering installed and got the Hydraulic winch installed. I didn't take any pics of the progress, I kept forgetting the camera. THe 1KZ-TE has an idle up feature which has been nice the last few mornings. Just push a button and...

forum.ih8mud.com

I'm currently running about 18 or 19Psi, I don't remember which and I've had it as high as 21Psi. I think its getting out of its efficiency zone at that boost and it needs a better turbo. I have been thinking about getting a turbo from one of the 3.0L VW TDI's as they have much newer technology than the CT12B. I don't need to make it into a racecar so I've put it off. I do have a full 3" exhaust including a muffler (because I'm old) and a front mount intercooler.

Don't worry, I have the muffler as well my Spill Control Valve is the full electronic solenoid type so I can't just add more fuel unfortunately. Half way through installing this turbo. Will see how she goes!

 

[onda]

Interested to see what has become of your install!

 

[KiwiBogan]

Ok so the verdict is in. I'll start by saying that was not a straight forward swap out. I accidentally sheared the heads off two bolts during the install process (flush with the engine block) so had to do two broken bolt extractions. 16 straight hours later and the new turbo was in, primed and car back up and running. New turbo never came with threaded dowels, oil drain pipe, nuts/bolts etc so a fair bit of time was spent carefully extracting all that stuff and thoroughly cleaning it all and swapping over.

Turbo upgrade alone (without adding more fuel) has made very little difference from the stock C12B. Maybe a small improvement. Up hill driving is the same. Acceleration seems about the same. For testing purposes, I left a couple of hose clamps loose between the air filter and turbo and went for a spin around the block. The car went MUCH better! So the ait intake needs a bit more work done I think as there is definitely a restriction there. To be clear, I was hoping the ECU might add more fuel when it recognizes the higher airflow but that doesn't seem to be happening.

I do feel like there's still a lot of room for improvement with this engine. It feels like after all the mods I've done, it really needs a good tune to suit. It has this sluggish feeling to it, almost worse to drive than my last engine which had a cracked head and damage in the 1st cylinder from a broken glow plug tip! However due my injector pump type, my only option for tuning is investing in a quality chip which I won't be able to afford that for a while.

So conclusion, a high flow turbo alone won't make the 1KZ-TE engine better on hills. I haven't tested towing my caravan yet but I can tell it won't have made much of a difference. Opening up your intake with a big snorkel and high flow air filter with this turbo will show some improvement. But it seems you really need the ability to add fuel to get any real gains with these high flow turbos.

Happy to be corrected with other people's experience's.

 

[Rigster]

Ok so the verdict is in. I'll start by saying that was not a straight forward swap out. I accidentally sheared the heads off two bolts during the install process (flush with the engine block) so had to do two broken bolt extractions. 16 straight hours later and the new turbo was in, primed and car back up and running. New turbo never came with threaded dowels, oil drain pipe, nuts/bolts etc so a fair bit of time was spent carefully extracting all that stuff and thoroughly cleaning it all and swapping over.

Turbo upgrade alone (without adding more fuel) has made very little difference from the stock C12B. Maybe a small improvement. Up hill driving is the same. Acceleration seems about the same. For testing purposes, I left a couple of hose clamps loose between the air filter and turbo and went for a spin around the block. The car went MUCH better! So the ait intake needs a bit more work done I think as there is definitely a restriction there. To be clear, I was hoping the ECU might add more fuel when it recognizes the higher airflow but that doesn't seem to be happening.

I do feel like there's still a lot of room for improvement with this engine. It feels like after all the mods I've done, it really needs a good tune to suit. It has this sluggish feeling to it, almost worse to drive than my last engine which had a cracked head and damage in the 1st cylinder from a broken glow plug tip! However due my injector pump type, my only option for tuning is investing in a quality chip which I won't be able to afford that for a while.

So conclusion, a high flow turbo alone won't make the 1KZ-TE engine better on hills. I haven't tested towing my caravan yet but I can tell it won't have made much of a difference. Opening up your intake with a big snorkel and high flow air filter with this turbo will show some improvement. But it seems you really need the ability to add fuel to get any real gains with these high flow turbos.

Happy to be corrected with other people's experience's.

Hey KB... thanks for sharing!

Until you get a chip to tell the fuel pump to step it up... you could try adjusting wastegate/boost on the turbo itself to increase the pressure/air being delivered to the cylinders. However, this will only do so much as well until you begin to have the option to increase fuel.

I am waiting until I get my intercooler installed before playing with fuel and boost levels to find a happy place betwixt performance and economy and longevity - I suspect it to be a back and forth trial and error to get it dialed in, so you may be in the same boat until you get your programmable chip. Sorry to hear that you are not getting much difference after all the work and effort! But thanks for sharing so anyone else with the same engine will know to chip prior to aftermarket turbo.

All the best!

 

[KiwiBogan]

Hey KB... thanks for sharing!

Until you get a chip to tell the fuel pump to step it up... you could try adjusting wastegate/boost on the turbo itself to increase the pressure/air being delivered to the cylinders. However, this will only do so much as well until you begin to have the option to increase fuel.

I am waiting until I get my intercooler installed before playing with fuel and boost levels to find a happy place betwixt performance and economy and longevity - I suspect it to be a back and forth trial and error to get it dialed in, so you may be in the same boat until you get your programmable chip. Sorry to hear that you are not getting much difference after all the work and effort! But thanks for sharing so anyone else with the same engine will know to chip prior to aftermarket turbo.

All the best!

Already have the boost wound up to 18psi (peak), 3" exhaust, 3 bar map sensor, custom 2.75" stainless snorkel with standard filter box. I'm starting to think I should have gone to a 3" snorkel but I am not a fan of the look of them.

It's probably a chat for a new thread but I'm also wondering about whether I need to clock my injector pump. I just slapped it on the new engine (both donor engine and new engine were set to TDC), lined it up with the marks on the engine and the Injector pump ears and called it a day. Some say that's all you need to do and the ECU corrects the timing from there. Others say it needs to have a special guage on it and clocked 2° or whatever it is for these pumps. It does feel like maybe the timing is a bit retarded. Also will pop an electronic throttle controller on soon to fix the slop in acceleration. That might help perk it up a bit. Fun and game$!

 

[KiwiBogan]

Ok so the verdict is in. I'll start by saying that was not a straight forward swap out. I accidentally sheared the heads off two bolts during the install process (flush with the engine block) so had to do two broken bolt extractions. 16 straight hours later and the new turbo was in, primed and car back up and running. New turbo never came with threaded dowels, oil drain pipe, nuts/bolts etc so a fair bit of time was spent carefully extracting all that stuff and thoroughly cleaning it all and swapping over.

Turbo upgrade alone (without adding more fuel) has made very little difference from the stock C12B. Maybe a small improvement. Up hill driving is the same. Acceleration seems about the same. For testing purposes, I left a couple of hose clamps loose between the air filter and turbo and went for a spin around the block. The car went MUCH better! So the ait intake needs a bit more work done I think as there is definitely a restriction there. To be clear, I was hoping the ECU might add more fuel when it recognizes the higher airflow but that doesn't seem to be happening.

I do feel like there's still a lot of room for improvement with this engine. It feels like after all the mods I've done, it really needs a good tune to suit. It has this sluggish feeling to it, almost worse to drive than my last engine which had a cracked head and damage in the 1st cylinder from a broken glow plug tip! However due my injector pump type, my only option for tuning is investing in a quality chip which I won't be able to afford that for a while.

So conclusion, a high flow turbo alone won't make the 1KZ-TE engine better on hills. I haven't tested towing my caravan yet but I can tell it won't have made much of a difference. Opening up your intake with a big snorkel and high flow air filter with this turbo will show some improvement. But it seems you really need the ability to add fuel to get any real gains with these high flow turbos.

Happy to be corrected with other people's experience's.

Alright update time...

I think I spoke too soon After clocking up a few more KMs over a couple of driving sessions, the performance of the car seems to have improved dramatically! There really is quite a delay from performing mods on the 1KZ-TE engine to the ECU adjusting to these mods and you seeing the changes. I haven't seen anyone talking about this point anywhere on the web but it's definitely a thing and worth noting!

The notable performance gains are in the lower rev ranges. Usual driving around the hills where I live, smaller hills and accelerating and getting up to speed entering the freeway. I still haven't tried towing my 2T caravan yet but I reckon things will definitely be better. But the problem (which I'm actually trying to overcome) still somewhat exists and that is the power loss while driving up long hills on the freeway as part of my daily drive(s). You all know what I'm talking about... When the auto trans drops to 3rd gear, the car revs like hell and feels like the fuelling has been cut causing the car to slow right down. Disabling over drive helps a bit but still not great. I just want to be able to hold the speed better and have some extra for maneuvering safely around trucks etc

What I'm also learning is that the air intake on the 1KZ-TE is a massive bottle neck. Improving this will dramatically improve the effects of this turbo. I'm exploring the option of swapping the 2000 Prado 1KZ airbox out for a 100 or 200 series ait box but in the meantime I've ordered a Unifilter to see how what kind of gains I can get improving the intake airflow. Stay tuned

 

[Peter P]

Fellow Kiwi here. Any update on the performance of the turbo KB? All going well with no issues? Asking as I am contemplating CCT's high-flow CT20 for my own Surf!

 

[KiwiBogan]

Yep, so far no dramas!