1997 LX 450 Aftermarket Catalytic Converter CARB Woes...

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mct75 said:
Also, the new style (or at least the 3 kinds I have in my garage) are just about impossible to pour into a car's gas tank. Either you're at such a funky angle that you can't open up the flap in the filler, or the gas can is horizontal and you can only pour out the top third of the gas can. Normally a gallon or so ends up on the side of my truck and on the ground.

Yeah, you can buy the spouts to retrofit gas cans so they actually work, but it's crazy to have to spend another $10 fixing what is already a $30 plastic jug.
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I see old style cans on CL all the time. I never thought I would need to buy a used gas can, but after this debacle, those puppies are gold!

To me, it seems like Diane Feinstein or Nancy Pelosi must have seen someone knock over a gas can and dribble some gas on something and she almost threw a rod. She must have marched into work the next day and demanded that this outrage be curtailed and they held a contest to see who could come up with a solution, Shark Tank style, and the winner won without ever even trying his invention out. That is the only plausible explanation for the monstrosity that came to be because of that one incident. :meh:
 
Red Merle said:
I see old style cans on CL all the time. I never thought I would need to buy a used gas can, but after this debacle, those puppies are gold!

To me, it seems like Diane Feinstein or Nancy Pelosi must have seen someone knock over a gas can and dribble some gas on something and she almost threw a rod. She must have marched into work the next day and demanded that this outrage be curtailed and they held a contest to see who could come up with a solution, Shark Tank style, and the winner won without ever even trying his invention out. That is the only plausible explanation for the monstrosity that came to be because of that one incident. :meh:
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CARB wasn't getting enough money for their certifications so they made changes to require aftermarket parts to be certified for each vehicle independently.
 
Red Merle said:
I was still complaining about the gas cans.
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Shakes head in anger. I just bought some of these to install in my CARB plastic gas cans. They work so much better now. The Nozzle also works with the new metal cans.

Vents
Nozzle
 
Brentbba said:
Good Luck Doug! I was asked a question at one smog shop on whether I still had my original cats. Walked away sure he would fail me immediately w/o even looking if I said they were aftermarket...approved CARB or not!

Son and I were just talking last night about whether American Toyota was still offering up mud discounts or not. Local dealer is a pain to deal with when it comes to internet price matching.
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One thing that I've leaned is to check the ARB site in the future before buying another used vehicle - the 97 LX450 is not the only one with this same issue...there are many others. I don't know if any other dealers offer the prices/deals that CDan and beno used to make available to us.
 
e9999 said:
Doug, you don't have a cat skid plate that would take them 2 hours to take off in order to do a visual, I take it...? mmm....
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no. not really an issue. my sliders didn't have the cat protection. I have one of the first-gen sliders from Slee...way back in the day before anyone considered cat protection.
 
chap79 said:
I am curious how this cat thing plays out since I have a '97 LX450 too and suspect my cats are beginning to fail.
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yep...it's definitely going to be an issue for anyone with a 97 LX 450...
 
MODist said:
I ran into the same exact issue with my 1996 bronco 351 while living in Cal. Only change from 95 to 96 was the addition of ODBII controls, same cats as 95. After the 2009 law change there was no legal part replacement part for my vehicle. 96 was the last year of the 351 and no manufacturer would pay again to certify a cat for a single engine and year. I ended up getting it registered out of state to keep it on the road. With the non-carb 49 state replacement my smog tests were lower than 60% of the vehicles tested in Cal. If would only fail the visual inspection. Money was the only reason it wasn't legal in Cal!

I'm not sure how good my cats are on my 96 LC(182K) but I plan on upgrading to a high flow single since I'm no longer restricted by money grubbing legislation. Let me know if you are interested in a cheep used solution.
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Please explain what you meant by "Money was the only reason it wasn't legal in Cali!".

You should be fine (for now) with your LC...but make sure to check the ARB site...
 
NorCalDoug said:
Please explain what you meant by "Money was the only reason it wasn't legal in Cali!".

You should be fine (for now) with your LC...but make sure to check the ARB site...
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The change in law required a new certification for cats on ODBII vehicles. The 95 and 96 bronco 351 were the same and so were the cats. 96 got the ODBII controls and was the last year of the bronco. So now all the aftermarket CARB cats were only good for 95 and earlier models. If they wanted to get it certified for 96 they had to pay again to pass the CARB certification. Not worth it for a single engine and a single year. It will pass smog testing with flying colors but fail on the visual as it is not an ODBII certified part. ODBII had nothing to do with emissions controls but they wrote it into the law anyway.
 
...so...yesterday, I noticed that Air Resources Board website (Database: Aftermarket Parts Database of Executive Orders for those interested) has an "Information Helpline" phone number, so I decide to call it to see if I can get some information and/or help...

I spoke to a person who answered the phone who insisted that the only reason there's no aftermarket catalytic converter for the 1997 Lexus LX 450 is that the various manufacturers "didn't want to go through the approval process" for this vehicle.

:hhmm:
uh...no...I don't think so...but I'm not quite ready to argue with anyone quite yet...

she proceeds to tell me that I need to take my case up with the manufacturers and ask them why they won't go through the process to get an aftermarket cat approved for my vehicle.

okay. fine.

I find the phone number for Magnaflow from their website and call the number. I spoke with a pretty cool guy who gave me a high-level explanation of the process, but in a nutshell, he told me that the California Air Resources Board provides them with a list of vehicles that THEY'VE approved for aftermarket cats and the manufacturers then produce cats based on the list. He directed me back to CARB. He told me that my rig isn't the only one that's caught up on this mess...there are quite a few others as well. He also said that he won't buy a used car without checking the ARB's database to make sure that aftermarket parts are approved by CARB...while it's no guarantee that they won't remove it later, it's worth checking beforehand.

so this confirmed that it can't be the manufacturers that are determining which vehicles make it on the list. In this situation, it wouldn't be any more effort to simply include the 97 LX 450 since the 97 Land Cruiser is already on their approve list. It's the same engine family.


I called CARB's helpline again today.
I explained the situation again and was told the same thing. Rather than continue to spin my wheels, I asked if I could speak with a supervisor. She said I could, but the supervisor had left for the day, but would call me on Monday.
I'll provide another update on Monday...
 
MODist said:
The change in law required a new certification for cats on ODBII vehicles. The 95 and 96 bronco 351 were the same and so were the cats. 96 got the ODBII controls and was the last year of the bronco. So now all the aftermarket CARB cats were only good for 95 and earlier models. If they wanted to get it certified for 96 they had to pay again to pass the CARB certification. Not worth it for a single engine and a single year. It will pass smog testing with flying colors but fail on the visual as it is not an ODBII certified part. ODBII had nothing to do with emissions controls but they wrote it into the law anyway.
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Ok. I understand now...and I can see how that might make sense...
With mine being ODBII, it shouldn't be the exact same situation as far as costs are concerned for the manufacturers. They went to the trouble to approve the 96 LX and the 97 LC.
 
One part of the law was that the number of original cats had to be maintained when replacing. Both the LC/LX and bronco had dual inline cats . Many aftermarket manufactures had combined the functions of both cats into a single universal cat. Pre ODBII cars did not have the requirement to maintain the same number of cats. This is probably the real reason for the lack of aftermarket parts. But it still boils down to CARB getting more money for testing.
 
Man this is so crazy, sorry your going thru this!!
 
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