1980 FJ40 2F… Dying Under Braking (2 Viewers)

[ASO544]

Thanks for the directions… either the dizzy is off or the flywheel timing marks were made on Friday or Monday cause for this thing to stay running good its 15-20 * advanced from the BB according to 2 lights. Maybe I was mistaken and it was never right on the first check and the advance in the gun was not on zero as I thought .

I got it set to where it drives great and idles, although high (around 1k ), but atleast it stays idling. I’ll check tomorrow to see where the button points on TDC / Cyl #1. I also check the button/ mechanical advance.

Thanks for not giving up on me !!!

 

[1911]

Thanks for the directions… either the dizzy is off or the flywheel timing marks were made on Friday or Monday cause for this thing to stay running good its 15-20 * advanced from the BB according to 2 lights. Maybe I was mistaken and it was never right on the first check and the advance in the gun was not on zero as I thought .

I got it set to where it drives great and idles, although high (around 1k ), but atleast it stays idling. I’ll check tomorrow to see where the button points on TDC / Cyl #1. I also check the button/ mechanical advance.

Thanks for not giving up on me !!!

What altitude are you at? Can’t see your location info while I’m reading mud on my phone.

 

[ASO544]

Florida… I’m at about 30@ feet above sea level

 

[45Dougal]

At 1000 rpm you should be around the start of the centrifugal advance kicking in, and depending on how strong your old springs are you could be getting that much advance.
A quick Google around found these curves.

Ignition timing advance

Finally had some time to install an FJ60 dizzy in my 75, but before I did I wanted to baseline the stock vac advance one so I can compare the two. This is the ignition advance curve from my original FJ40 distributor. I didn't notice until after swapping dizzys that my vac advance mechanism has...

forum.ih8mud.com

This is something often overlooked. I recall that this was also an issue on the original Mini - even straight from the factory the advance curve could be way off the design spec due to spring length and tension variations.
If you have a tacho and a timing light, then you can characterise it

 

[cruisermatt]

What happened to the original 1980 distributor and coil, why were they replaced with points units?
Definitely don’t throw any more parts at it if you are wanting us to work on it..
HEI

 

[dmaddox]

While annoying - you'll look back at all this as a fun learning experience, hang in there. As others have said, vacuum leaks are your enemy when trying to set timing and idle. Have you tried the carb cleaner/brake cleaner spray test while the truck is idling? If there is a change in RPM anywhere you spray, you've located a leak.
I'd also not trust the jb-weld or epoxy filled plug in the manifold. Replace that with the correct part, which should have two or three vacuum ports in it. Or, plug it altogether. I'm a bit of a purist, and a well dialed in smogged 2F is a beautiful machine, so I'd work my way through resmogging it - but that's another day.

For now, chase down any vacuum leaks - because even if you get your timing in the ballpark - with tomorrow's temperature you'll have another RPM. Then, when the truck warms up, another RPM. You'll be chasing timing all over the place.

Without diving into each post on the thread - do you have a parts list on what you are missing? Simplify and keep your sanity by going through one system at a time. Seal the engine/vacuum, cooling system, brake system, etc...

Hang in there....you have a sweet cruiser. Nice color, too

 

[pb4ugo]

Thanks for the directions… either the dizzy is off or the flywheel timing marks were made on Friday or Monday cause for this thing to stay running good its 15-20 * advanced from the BB according to 2 lights. Maybe I was mistaken and it was never right on the first check and the advance in the gun was not on zero as I thought .

I got it set to where it drives great and idles, although high (around 1k ), but atleast it stays idling. I’ll check tomorrow to see where the button points on TDC / Cyl #1. I also check the button/ mechanical advance.

Thanks for not giving up on me !!!

Are you getting 15-20 degrees with the vacuum hooked up or disconnected and plugged? At a 1000 rpm the mechanical advance is probably just starting.

 

[ASO544]

So here are the button positions on TDC . ( the line … not the BB) I got both the compression and exhaust . I also played with my idle mixture some and the best vaccum I could get ( intake manifold) was 14-16.

My 15-20* is with the Vacuum Advance disconnected and plugged. It’s the advance I have to add to the gun to get the BB in the window with the dizzy set initially at a point the truck will run.

Not sure on why the original dizzy and coil were changed out…hopefully one can be located

 

[ASO544]

Mechanical Advance

 

[pb4ugo]

If you're using the advance function on the timing gun you use the actual tdc mark a d pointer for reference, not the bb. The bb is 7* btdc. If you want X as your advance, set the light to X* and turn the distributor until the tdc mark lines up with the pointer. The mechanical advance springs seem to be intact. Can you get the idle down?

 

[ASO544]

1050 rpms seems to be the lowest I can get it before it wants to die. I tried tweaking the timing to see if that helped but regardless of the dizzy position, the 1050 rpm area is the bottom .

 

[ASO544]

So does the distributor looked to be installed correctly ? The button seems to be pointing at #4 spark plug at TDC

 

[pb4ugo]

So does the distributor looked to be installed correctly ? The button seems to be pointing at #4 spark plug at TDC

Yes, if its at tdc on the compression stroke.

I wonder if if the idle circuit in the carb is operating or set properly. Are the idle mixture screws responsive when making adjustments?

 

[ASO544]

I just took the 2 button position readings as it passed the TDC. I would assume the button pointing at #4 was the compression stroke but I didn’t check it with a dowel.

I was wonder the same thing on the idle solenoid … the idle changes but seems slow to respond to screw changes.

 

[ASO544]

I wonder with the idle issue ( being over 1k ) if the mechanical advance is kicking in because of it and that’s causing the timing to be advanced beyond the BB ( 7*) ?

 

[pb4ugo]

Do you have 12 volts going to the idle solenoid? Does it click when 12 volts is supplied. You can check it with the key on and plugging and unplugging it, or use a jumper wire from the battery? Using a dowel in the spark plug hole wont tell you anything. If the tdc mark is lined up with the pointer the #1 and # 6 piston will be at the top of its cylinder bore, but you wont know if its on the compression or exhaust stroke. Confirm the solenoid is working 1st. We can assume the dist is installed correctly because it runs. If you want to confirm the dist is installed correctly, you can pull the valve cover, with the rotor pointing at #4 cylder and the tdc mark is lined up & check the 1st 2 valve rockers and see if they are loose, if they're not then check the #6 rockers. Or remove the # 1 plug and put your finger over the hole while you rotate or crank the engine and when air is forced out you should be on the compression stroke. Then line up tdc mark and look at where the rotor is pointing.

 

[pb4ugo]

I wonder with the idle issue ( being over 1k ) if the mechanical advance is kicking in because of it and that’s causing the timing to be advanced beyond the BB ( 7*) ?

Correct. The mechanical advance is likely kicking in because the idle is too high. Your Vacuum is low also and the idle mixture screws aren't very responsive. I think the issue is in or around the idle circuit. The idle ports maybe clogged, the throttle plates may not be totally closing or the linkage isn't allowing them to close completely, and you are bypassing the idle circuit.

 

[1MOA]

Just rip it all out and put a DUI ignition in it. I did that with mine 7 years ago and I have not touched it since then. Hotter spark better starting better fuel economy and no moving parts.

 

[ASO544]

Ok… the solenoid clicks when the key is turned on and off. I’ll check the linkage to make sure the butterflies are fully closing

 

[pb4ugo]

Do you know how many turns the idle mixtures screws are set at? With the engine off, you can screw in the idle mixture screws in untill they bottom out and count how many turns it takes for them to bottom out. Don't crank them down tight. Then return them back. From what you describe the idle adjustment screw might be holding the throttle plates open too. I guess it's either no or minimal fuel from the idle circuit or a vacuum leak requiring more fuel to keep running. You need to figure out how to get the idle down. Did you recheck the timing using the tdc mark and pointer using the lights advance function, instead of the bb?