100 Series Calipers + Rotors?

[chibo]

edit: To sound like I don't have an opinion on stock 80 brakes:
Has anyone put the full 100 series brake setup on an 80? Has anyone moved to bigger calipers/rotors on an 80? If so, what was/were the donor vehicle(s)?
Would someone mind taking measurements of the following:
<=2001 UZJ100 Front and Rear Rotor Hat Sizes, inside and out
<=2001 UZJ100 Front and Rear Rotor Sizes
Pictures of <=2001 UZJ100 Front and Rear Caliper and if possible measurements on them, size of the mounting holes, thickness of the mounting area
<=2001 UZJ100 Brake Master Cylinder Piston Size

Thanks

 

[RavenTai]

I've come to the conclusion that the brakes on my 80 are near deathtrap level

Death trap? are you on stock 31" tires? 80 serires brakes are not sports car stop on a dime but much better than many older domestic vehicles that I am used to.


are you able to kick in ABS on dry pavement? if not there is something wrong.

 

[DesertCruiser]

Death trap? are you on stock 31" tires? 80 serires brakes are not sports car stop on a dime but much better than many older domestic vehicles that I am used to.

I agree. I've been poking around on the 100 Series Tech and asked about 100's vs 80's. I do NOT want to start that again here, but there were so many people complaining about the brakes on an 80. I don't get it. Mine seem to be just fine. Anyway, just a quick comment to agree with you RavenTai.

 

[IdahoDoug]

X3 on 80 stock brakes being fine. If you bought used, you may have no idea how much neglect the previous owner heaped on the brake system. Toss new factory rotors and pads on it, properly bleed the brakes and see where you're at. Also, knowing if your tires and wheels are stock is helpful. These are not sports cars, but both of mine (with proper brake maintenance) display tremendous brake system power, including bringing a 9000lb trailer with brake failure to a halt on a downhill freeway exit with no advance warning.

With such a heavy vehicle, any untested changes (super duper red painted brake pads), or neglect (old brake fluid with air and water build up, sticking calipers) will have an easily detected impact to degrade braking ability.

It's been debated here a few times, but if there are a number of stock well maintained 80s with owners that feel the brakes are powerful, then it makes it plain that poor stopping rigs have issues.

DougM

 

[Grench]

I've come to the conclusion that the brakes on my 80 are near deathtrap level so I was wondering if anyone had thrown 100 calipers/rotors on an 80? I'd be willing to make my own brackets/redrill the rotors/move to 17's if I had to so that this would work. Anyone have specific measurements on the rotor hat sizes between the two, as well as rotor diameters and how the calipers mount? I've got a friend with a 100 but he lives 200 miles away at the moment, I do know that from driving it the brakes are quite a bit more confidence inspiring.

Thanks

In properly working order an 80s brakes will stop the truck quite quickly. In bad repair, they're scary as hell.

My guess, your brakes are on the same fluid, rotors, etc... as they left Japan with.

I do not advocate people working on their brakes as an intro to wrenching. Discount brake shops will be just as likely to make things worse as better. I have never taken one of my FZJ80s to a dealer. If you don't have someone who knows what they're doing to help you, you might want to take this to a dealer's repair shop. You'll come out $1000 or so poorer, but your brakes should work when you're done.

From the sounds of it, your brakes are broken. Get them fixed before you run up my insurance rates.

 

[chibo]

The truck has been owned since new by my family (the second, our first was a 92). I've personally done all of the brake changes for the past 8 years (I started on cars rather early.), it's got DBA slotted front/rear with EBC greens and motul brake fluid. Dropping 1k on brakes is irresponsible to tell someone, no car I have owned has ever been to a dealer for anything and the car I've listed in my signature (240sx) has been down to bare unibody multiple times during complete rebuilds (it was a track car).

I still stand by the idea that these brakes suck/abs comes on too early and I was asking if anyone had converted to bigger brakes like those off the 100. The 100 brakes feel much, much better to me than the 80s, personal opinion here so take it for what you will. I'm pretty sure I won't be running your insurance rates up any time soon, I'd be more worried about you running mine up ($3200 a year)

Though as I asked before, has anyone converted to bigger brakes on these?

 

[RavenTai]

If you are already into the ABS then bigger bakes will not do a bit of good. there is no "too early" for ABS, you need stickier tires or need to slow down or get something that does not weight 6K pounds.

 

[chibo]

If you are already into the ABS then bigger bakes will not do a bit of good. there is no "too early" for ABS, you need stickier tires or need to slow down or get something that does not weight 6K pounds.

I'm running 31's and I come from cars that don't bring on ABS at first hint of locked wheel (Evolution 9 on R compound, STi on R compound, 240sx with Evo/STi brake conversion without ABS), my Landcruiser doesn't have too much of a problem getting into ABS and I'm more worried about fade. A sports car is not an option for me at the current time in my life, otherwise I'd have one again - I'm a geology student so I need a 4wd vehicle. I really don't want to debate this - I just want to know if anyone has put bigger brakes on an 80.

edit: After further research UZJ100's have 16" wheels on the <=01 models thus I should be able to clear their brakes on stock wheels... time to have my friend measure some stuff for me.

 

[Grench]

Hey bud, you said your 80s brakes make it a "Deathtrap".

When I got my grey '96 it WAS a deathtrap. Hit the brakes and pray. I changed the pads, no improvement, the rotors, no improvement, bled the system, no improvement... It was the 5th time I bled the system where I'd finally gotten all of the old fluid out and whatever bubble/crap was causing the poor performance. Now I can hit the brakes and throw things in the back against the seats. Yes, I'm looking at barriers.

You say that you have "Changed the brakes" yourself every time. Thats nice. Why do they suck? From your first message it is easy to assume that you don't know what to do with them. If you can't fix them right, hire someone who can. 100 series are 5 bolt, your 80 is 6. Adapting it out? Good luck on that one. YMMV.

Brutal? Yep. Its brakes. Make them work right one way or the other.

If you're paying $3200 a year for insurance on a 10 year old $9,000 truck, you might consider shopping around a bit. I'm paying under $900 per truck per year full coverage by a top line name brand insurer and I think that is high. Again, YMMV.

 

[chibo]

Hey bud, you said your 80s brakes make it a "Deathtrap".

When I got my grey '96 it WAS a deathtrap. Hit the brakes and pray. I changed the pads, no improvement, the rotors, no improvement, bled the system, no improvement... It was the 5th time I bled the system where I'd finally gotten all of the old fluid out and whatever bubble/crap was causing the poor performance. Now I can hit the brakes and throw things in the back against the seats. Yes, I'm looking at barriers.

You say that you have "Changed the brakes" yourself every time. Thats nice. Why do they suck? From your first message it is easy to assume that you don't know what to do with them. If you can't fix them right, hire someone who can. 100 series are 5 bolt, your 80 is 6. Adapting it out? Good luck on that one. YMMV.

Brutal? Yep. Its brakes. Make them work right one way or the other.

If you're paying $3200 a year for insurance on a 10 year old $9,000 truck, you might consider shopping around a bit. I'm paying under $900 per truck per year full coverage by a top line name brand insurer and I think that is high. Again, YMMV.

Uh, you can redrill rotors... I've personally done 5->4 lug before and had no problems 5 lug to 6 lug is the least of my worries here, I'm more worried about fabbing up four adapters to mount the calipers to the stock caliper mount points... and then the size of the 80 master cylinder compared to the 100 master cylinder.

I'm paying $3200 a year because I'm 19 with one speeding ticket and still under my parent's plan (who own a few 'high risk' vehicles that I am also covered on).

I'm sorry, I didn't come in here to start an argument - I'm just getting frustrated that my question isn't being answered... which to clarify once again: has anyone put the full 100 series brake setup on an 80? Has anyone moved to bigger calipers/rotors on an 80? If so, what was/were the donor vehicle(s)?

 

[bhaines]

You guys may already know but you can replace the pre Oct 1992 landcruiser brakes with any 80 series post oct 92 brakes which have bigger calipers and discs up front and bigger discs on the rear (same calipers) *****then replace your 80 front pads with 100series front pads***** rears dont fit, and the stopping difference is insane. I have pics showing the install if required.

 

[Grench]

I'm sorry, I didn't come in here to start an argument - I'm just getting frustrated that my question isn't being answered.

You got your answer from the first 4 responders but it isn't what you wanted to hear.

Turn or replace the front rotors and adding 100 series pads is easy... may as well do birfs while you have the front rotors off though. My modified +1500lbs '96 with 100 pads stops almost as short as my stock '96 with 'normal' pads. I don't think the pads make a huge difference on stopping, but they should wear a lot longer.

Now, back to the answer. If your truck can't stop (deathtrap) then there is something (broken/out of tune/not right) with your brakes. Before you go adapting out larger brakes, then finding out you need different (17") rims to fit over your new brakes, make the system you have now work right. In the meantime, I hope that you are not driving behind me.

If your family has high line vehicles, you may be better off not being on the parents insurance. Their insurance may require it though if you live at their address.

IMHO only, YMMV.

 

[alkaline747trio]

You guys may already know but you can replace the pre Oct 1992 landcruiser brakes with any 80 series post oct 92 brakes which have bigger calipers and discs up front and bigger discs on the rear (same calipers) *****then replace your 80 front pads with 100series front pads***** rears dont fit, and the stopping difference is insane. I have pics showing the install if required.

90-92 FJ80s don't have rear discs, and you have to replace a whole bunch to fit the later 80's calipers and rotors on the earlier ones (according to CDan)

 

[Beowulf]

I'm sorry, I didn't come in here to start an argument - I'm just getting frustrated that my question isn't being answered... which to clarify once again: has anyone put the full 100 series brake setup on an 80? Has anyone moved to bigger calipers/rotors on an 80? If so, what was/were the donor vehicle(s)?

I am not aware of anyone redrilling 5 stud 100 Series rotors to work on 6-hole 80-series hubs. I guess it can be done but that seems a bit "extreme" and, IMHO, the results would be marginally better. Changing out to 100-Series calipers would also be a big job and might give more positive results but now you're talking some big bucks....

So....

Since you are into HP sports cars...
and you want the best brakes possible...
and you seem to have more money than the average DIY 'Mudder
and you are not opposed to running some hybrid braking system...

then, I would recommend the high dollar after market calipers and rotors that can be adapted. I believe they are about $5,000 so if that doesn't faze you then you must be serious about this mod.

Those brakes have been posted here in the 80-Section (LX_Treme ? ) and, IIRC, they were retrofitted to one of the Saudi high performance 80s. You can do the searching for yourself and if you are not really serious then don't waste my time by asking me to search for you. If you are serious and cannot find the post then let me know and I'll try to help.

-B-

 

[Beowulf]

I see you have edited your 1st post that started this thread. That edited post should go over in the 100-Section since that is the best source of getting someone to run out and measure the calipers and rotors .... or finding someone that has a set sitting on the bench. We only have a few 100-owners here in the 80 section.

-B-

 

[bhaines]

90-92 FJ80s don't have rear discs, and you have to replace a whole bunch to fit the later 80's calipers and rotors on the earlier ones (according to CDan)

Every pre 92 80 series GXL I have seen has rear discs with the handbrake pads pushing on the inside of the disc. All you have to do is replace the backing plates front and rear, discs front and rear and calipers in the front. Thats all. Instant upgrade.

 

[Grench]

Every pre 92 80 series GXL I have seen has rear discs with the handbrake pads pushing on the inside of the disc. All you have to do is replace the backing plates front and rear, discs front and rear and calipers in the front. Thats all. Instant upgrade.

US '91 and '92 had drum brakes in the rear. No discs. No floaters. No ABS.

 

[OGBeno]

Personally, as these vehicles get older, I think we are going to have to replace more parts. Which is fine with me.

I too had some sketchy brake issues early on. Now they are gone.

1. Replace rotors and pads. Do not turn rotors--replace them. Either with OEM or go with slotted/drilled, etc. Whatever your flavor.

2. Replace brake lines.

3. Take a look at your calipers--are any of the pistons seized? If so, rebuild or replace calipers. I replaced all 4 calipers with OEM remans and am very happy with the investment (yes, it was a long term investment in the truck's livelihood)

4. Bleed system real, real, good. Nothing can replace fresh, nice fluid.

[ I also do not utilize ABS....but then again, I'm not the smartest dude around. ]

 

[FirstToy]

What makes the 100 series brakes so brilliant? They are very good but worth trying to adapt 5 to 6 lug pattern???

The 4Runner SE brakes are bigger and 6 lug so try those. What is good on the 100, 4Runner and FJC is they all have EBFD so really, it's the whole package- not just the discs and calipers.
Why not go aftermarket with some crazy big Brembos?

My truck is lifted and armored so it's carrying weight. The brakes are fine, they don't have a problem with fade nor are dangerous at all. They certainly aren't brillant but they do the job, that's for sure. Is this a case of "if you keep saying it, it must be true"?

Physics is hard to overcome. Even if you got bigger toyota discs on there, it might improve fade (not really a suv issue- more of a sportscar issue, imo. I guess it depends on how you drive) but I don't know if the improvement in stopping dist. will be worth the $$.

I would like to get some beefier brakes but that's the mod bug in me. W/ the Slee ss lines, fresh fluid and pads; it's doing pretty good right now.

If you find something that works, do a writeup tho!

 

[chibo]

I am not aware of anyone redrilling 5 stud 100 Series rotors to work on 6-hole 80-series hubs. I guess it can be done but that seems a bit "extreme" and, IMHO, the results would be marginally better. Changing out to 100-Series calipers would also be a big job and might give more positive results but now you're talking some big bucks....

So....

Since you are into HP sports cars...
and you want the best brakes possible...
and you seem to have more money than the average DIY 'Mudder
and you are not opposed to running some hybrid braking system...

then, I would recommend the high dollar after market calipers and rotors that can be adapted. I believe they are about $5,000 so if that doesn't faze you then you must be serious about this mod.

Those brakes have been posted here in the 80-Section (LX_Treme ? ) and, IIRC, they were retrofitted to one of the Saudi high performance 80s. You can do the searching for yourself and if you are not really serious then don't waste my time by asking me to search for you. If you are serious and cannot find the post then let me know and I'll try to help.

-B-

I don't believe that it'd be big bucks to do this conversion, I have access to a CNC and machine shop so it'd basically be the price of calipers and rotors. I don't have a lot of money to drop, but it is something I can do myself and would like to attempt. I assume the big brakes you are referring to are something like 355mm Porsche(Brembo) Big Reds, in which case you'd be looking at something closer to $2000 for that full setup, rather than 5k. I'm the first to admit that I don't offroad much, and if I do it's more prerunning stuff.... so yeah, this is more for engineering boredom and fun; I love hybrid stuff. Thank you for the idea about posting in the 100 section, it slipped my mind for some reason.

What makes the 100 series brakes so brilliant? They are very good but worth trying to adapt 5 to 6 lug pattern???

The 4Runner SE brakes are bigger and 6 lug so try those. What is good on the 100, 4Runner and FJC is they all have EBFD so really, it's the whole package- not just the discs and calipers.
Why not go aftermarket with some crazy big Brembos?

My truck is lifted and armored so it's carrying weight. The brakes are fine, they don't have a problem with fade nor are dangerous at all. They certainly aren't brillant but they do the job, that's for sure. Is this a case of "if you keep saying it, it must be true"?

Physics is hard to overcome. Even if you got bigger toyota discs on there, it might improve fade (not really a suv issue- more of a sportscar issue, imo. I guess it depends on how you drive) but I don't know if the improvement in stopping dist. will be worth the $$.

I would like to get some beefier brakes but that's the mod bug in me. W/ the Slee ss lines, fresh fluid and pads; it's doing pretty good right now.

If you find something that works, do a writeup tho!

Interesting, I was unaware that the SE's were also 6 lug, I will check in to that.

I will admit that this is more for fun than major braking improvement

I realize most offroaders don't do mods like this, but it's what I'm used to and I know.
My main reason for going with a 100 setup is accessibility and price.

Front calipers are $102 a piece, $50 a piece after core returns; 80 calipers are $50/52(price/core return price), you make $2 per caliper after core is returned
Rear brake calipers are $56 a piece, however core is worth $72 a piece. You make $16 a caliper back. The 80 is $135/72(price/core return price), they end up costing $63 a piece

Let's total this:
80 Brakes-
New Set of Front Rotors: $100 (Autozone)
New Set of Rear Rotors: $68 (OEM on Ebay)
New Set of Front Calipers: -$4 (Autozone Reman with Core Return)
New Set of Rear Calipers: $126 (Autozone with Core Return)
New Set of Front Brake Pads: $43 (OEM on Ebay)
New Set of Rear Brake Pads: $25 (Autozone)
-----------------
Total: $358, a rough estimate that doesn't include other minor things

100 Brakes-
New Set of Front Rotors: $134 (Autozone)
New Set of Rear Rotors: $114 (Autozone)
New Set of Front Calipers: $100 (Autozone Reman with Core Return)
New Set of Rear Calipers: -$32 (Autozone Reman with Core Return)
New Set of Front Brake Pads: $72 (Autozone)
New Set of Rear Brake Pads: $50 (Autozone)
-----------------
Total: $438, rough estimate again.

Other notes:
98-01 UJZ100's run 16x8 wheels, the same as the FZJ80.
FZJ80 Bolt Pattern: 6X139.7
UZJ100 Bolt Pattern: 5X150

Assuming the your time is free and you have access to a shop then there really is no major cost involved in switching, assuming it's basically a bolt on affair, you could probably find this stuff cheaper - I just found what I could fast. IN THEORY, this setup should be less fade prone assuming the rotors are bigger, thus more heat is dissipated. I fade brakes because most of the offroading I do is at much quicker speeds and involves heavier braking.