100 in the sand dunes... problems! (80 comparison)

[Atticus]

Weight and weight and weight... then the SF in 80 vs. IF in 100... Even when the CDL not engaged...

In the sand you want to distribute the weight on the largest traction surface you can, so the difference between 20psi and 12psi... might really help.

weight is the key on sand

How would you know?






I'm just kidding.

 

[calamaridog]

I'm a bit confused about the weight comments. I'm figuring his 80 weighs at least as much as his wifes 100. I don't see this as being the issue.

 

[wngrog]

I fawked around a bit with the TRAC on the rental FJ Cruiser on the dunes at SnT and found that with it ON (it is, thankfully, selectable) it "duned" like ass.

Click it off and it was a dune beast.

Also, the weight of the 100 is a killer.

The tires on the FJ were 100% gay, but aired down to 12psi they were 100% better than at 20 psi where I started.

I wish I had had my 100 there as a comparison, but the extra 2000# would have been felt for sure........

The FJ is ugly as hell but it was a dune BEAST!

Nice meeting all of you 100 series guys

 

[e9999]

I fawked around a bit with the TRAC on the rental FJ Cruiser on the dunes at SnT and found that with it ON (it is, thankfully, selectable) it "duned" like ass.

Click it off and it was a dune beast.

Also, the weight of the 100 is a killer.

The tires on the FJ were 100% gay, but aired down to 12psi they were 100% better than at 20 psi where I started.

I wish I had had my 100 there as a comparison, but the extra 2000# would have been felt for sure........

The FJ is ugly as hell but it was a dune BEAST!

Nice meeting all of you 100 series guys

your comment about ATRAC is interesting. Didn't come into the picture in my case, though, cuz it came on only once, very briefly (that I could tell).

and yes, I think the 80 is at least as heavy as the 100, with the armor and load.

 

[bulldog-yota]

Only thing I can think of is the weight.

I ran my v8 4Runner (pretty much the same engine running gear as 100) at PIsmo on Saturday and it was flying like the wind over the dunes, as usual. Actually the sand was cool and pretty hard packed, makign duning a lot easier.

I have 265/70/17 Revos which I air down to 12 PSI at Pismo. That seems to work very well. You don't need ATRAC in the dunes, momentum and power helps a lot more with aired down tires. The ATRAC on the 4R hardly ever kicks in and is rarely needed on the dunes.

If you have the 5spd auto I would recommend you just leave it in D in 4H, lock the center diff and go ballistic. Just mash the gas pedal to the floor and let the engine and tranny do the work for you.

Mud tires suck in the dunes IMHO, I saw a guy working hard to get out of a bowl with his 100 with Toyo MTs. The MTs tend to dig in rather than float like ATs. I offered to winch him out, but he got out with a bit of momentum.

Would have been great if I met up with you in the dunes, as I'm sure you will be very impressed with your 100 in the sand once you find your "sand legs" with it. The 80s are OK in the dunes, but nothing special. They tend to suffer from high weight and low power. Smaller or more powerful rigs have a much easier time than the 80s in the dunes, I have now seen it 3 years in a row. Dunes I make with ease can get pretty tough for 80s (apart from the U80 and such variants off course )

 

[hoser]

Bulldog-yota, Thanks for offering to help! That bowl was starting to get crowded with three trucks in it.

 

[EL_3grab]

Dunes "MODE"

-No Spare tire
-No Rear seats
-8 gallon of gas in the sub tank

 

[SALEH]

remove the tire carrier also to lose weight ;p

 

[Bongani]

Eric

You have seen the DVD of my 100 series in the dunes and it shows that the 100 series can perform. My vehicle has the 4.5l EFI engine that has less power than the V8's but it kicks arse.

The biggest problem by the sound of it is your tyres. For better floatation you want a long footprint (not wide) . The higher the profile of the tyre the longer the footprint when deflating.

If possible, park the 80 and 100 in a piece perspex (see through material) and deflate to the same PSI. You will notice that the footprint of the 80 is considerably longer that 100 with the 18" rims.

BTW, my 100 has 285x75R16 and does not have the problems associated with the profile of the 18" rim wheels.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

I fawked around a bit with the TRAC on the rental FJ Cruiser on the dunes at SnT and found that with it ON (it is, thankfully, selectable) it "duned" like ass.

What are you doing? Trying to crawl up the hills? Put the pedal down and the TRAC won't slow you. Learn the system.

Oh, and buggies are friggin ugly.

 

[e9999]

well, it's very interesting to try and figure out what caused what. And it's hard to compare apples and oranges, of course. And I love the 100. And I'll play again with both, trying to optimize their behavior. And it's indeed possible that these 100 / lower profile tires requires much lower psi than the 80 ones to perform well. And I know that the 100 beats the pants off the 80 in some respects, so don't take any of the above as 100-bashing, but...

one irrefutable practical fact is that this time this 80 was doing much better than this 100 with the same driver over the same obstacles, for whatever reason. I'll try to learn what will make the 100 tick better in dunes, but in the meantime I know which one I'll take if I have to cross some critical sandy area...


Peace...!

 

[kitkraft]

I have never been overly impressed with my 100`s "sand ability" ...

Visit the beach in a Disco....that'll change your mind!!

 

[wngrog]

YOu guys think the only time the TRAC works is when you can hear it work? I am not sure about that. The system on the FJ was selectable and when the entire front would start spinning (high RPM) the TRAC seemed to retard the vehicle like an anti-skid system does on a car.

Does this look like crawling Schotts you dope?

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

YOu guys think the only time the TRAC works is when you can hear it work? I am not sure about that. The system on the FJ was selectable and when the entire front would start spinning (high RPM) the TRAC seemed to retard the vehicle like an anti-skid system does on a car.

Does this look like crawling Schotts you dope?

So far all reports on the FJ Cruiser say the system is dual mode like the 100, Runner, and GX.

So, again, the Dope will explain:

Low speed, light throttle...the TRAC will function.

Put the pedal down (to sling out mud, etc) and TRAC will not operate and cut throttle. If it did you'd get stuck like in a Sequoia, Escalade, etc.

Practicing more with your 100 will reveal this.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

YOu guys think the only time the TRAC works is when you can hear it work? I am not sure about that. The system on the FJ was selectable and when the entire front would start spinning (high RPM) the TRAC seemed to retard the vehicle like an anti-skid system does on a car.

Does this look like crawling Schotts you dope?

Oh, and one more thing....IF you've discovered something new about the FJ that hasn't been reported....TRAC cuts throttle. Then that might be a reason why the TRAC OFF switch is there. That sucks. You better remember to TRAC OFF before touching the mud. Might be more on this in the FJ forum.

The 100's TRAC does not cut throttle.

Signed,
Dope

 

[wngrog]

The 100's TRAC does not cut throttle.

Signed,
Dope

It does not cut throttle, nor does the FJ system, that was not what I said, I said it retarded the system.

It uses the brakes, therefore it retards the system.

The FJ Trac is a ton smoother than the TRAC on my 2001. They have come a long way with it.

TRAC in my 2001 is garbage.

That said, I don't want to side-track another thread arguing with Schotts, sorry e999.....

 

[FirstToy]

retarded... dope

dang wngrog, easy there!

You are right tho, the ATRAC has come a long way since 7 years ago. The FJC's is very aggressive and tuned for the trails. Toyota keeps improving this technology.

 

[e9999]

let's try and stick with tech stuff...

 

[bulldog-yota]

Hmm seems folks are talking about 2 different systems. The 100 has TRAC and ATRAC. TRAC cuts throttle to control wheelspin for icy roads, etc. ATRAC is to limit wheelspin of one wheel on an axle to agin foward traction. Once you lock the center diff VSC and TRAC should be disabled, only ATRCA should still work. ATRAC does not cut the throttle. Also ATRAC turns off once the engine goes over cetain RPMs.

So for sand driving purposes, just lock the center diff, leave it in 4H and go pedal to the metal and it should do all the work for you. Momentum is far more important than any traction control device such as lockers, ATRAC, etc.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Hmm seems folks are talking about 2 different systems. The 100 has TRAC and ATRAC. TRAC cuts throttle to control wheelspin for icy roads, etc. ATRAC is to limit wheelspin of one wheel on an axle to agin foward traction. Once you lock the center diff VSC and TRAC should be disabled, only ATRCA should still work. ATRAC does not cut the throttle. Also ATRAC turns off once the engine goes over cetain RPMs.

So for sand driving purposes, just lock the center diff, leave it in 4H and go pedal to the metal and it should do all the work for you. Momentum is far more important than any traction control device such as lockers, ATRAC, etc.

Not true. Sorry about that. All systems are called Active Trac. The system's the same though the software varies from vehicle to vehicle.

Active Trac does not cut throttle except on the Sequoia.

Once you lock the CDL, VSC gets disabled, A-TRAC does not....this is where you need it most.

Correct on TRAC not working on higher RPM's.