10" sub in 8" hole? Also, why is there a center dash speaker? (1 Viewer)

[ekolpack]

Designing a new sound system in my 08 LC to replace the mediocre "JBL" (I don't think they're actually made by JBL) system.

Two main questions:

1. I've heard tell of folks fitting a 10" sub in the 8" hole with a little ingenuity, adapters, custom mounting stuff. Can anyone confirm this? If so, any advice or pointers?
2. What's the point of the center speaker in the dash? Does this serve as the center for 5.1 when DVD's are being played? My plan is to delete this speaker as I'm concerned it will effect stereo (ie. only left and right) image and phase coherence. I'll be installing an Android head unit and don't plan to utilize the DVD option at all.

Thanks fellas! Happy New Year!

 

[dryrunner]

I disconnected the center speaker. I replaced the tweeters in the front pillars to dynaudio. Sound is pretty good.

 

[grinchy]

Could change to the lx box which fits a 10”.

2008-2020 Lexus LX570 Subwoofer Speaker Assembly Mark Levinson 86150-0W101 | eBay

For sale is a subwoofer which was taken off a new 2020 Lexus LX570.

www.ebay.com

probably better just to reuse the existing box with a high sensitivity 8“ in it.

 

[Roscoes]

GREAT thread on this topic:

Factory Subwoofer Info Guide

This topic doesn’t seem to have been covered much so I thought I would post some usable info on the factory subwoofer enclosure and subwoofer replacement. Before ordering an 8 inch subwoofer replacement for my 08 LC I searched long and hard for info on mounting depth of the factory enclosure...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[ekolpack]

Could change to the lx box which fits a 10”.

2008-2020 Lexus LX570 Subwoofer Speaker Assembly Mark Levinson 86150-0W101 | eBay

For sale is a subwoofer which was taken off a new 2020 Lexus LX570.

www.ebay.com

probably better just to reuse the existing box with a high sensitivity 8“ in it.

Grinchy, thanks again man, I much appreciate it! I'll probably do that....sounds like trying to mod my 8" enclosure to fit a 10" will be......unenjoyable

So if I buy this, my sub will still be a wee bit large at exactly 5.5" deep. I noticed somewhere in the thread posted by Jogln (THANK YOU! Great info here!) that you mentioned 5.5" is probably the absolute max size you could fit in the LX570 enclosure with a spacer. Do you think that'll work? Am I risking the surround butting up against the grill? If i'm gunna have to get a new sub anyway to replace this fancy one I've got (DVC Image Dynamics IDQ10) I may just sell the one I've got and put the $ towards a really high quality 8" that will fit in my existing enclosure and not even mess with swapping enclosures. Thanks a ton for all the help! That other thread is amazing!

 

[grinchy]

Grincy, thanks again man, I much appreciate it! I'll probably do that....sounds like trying to mod my 8" enclosure to fit a 10" will be......unenjoyable

So if I buy this, my sub will still be a wee bit large at exactly 5.5" deep. I noticed somewhere in the thread posted by Jogln (THANK YOU! Great info here!) that you mentioned 5.5" is probably the absolute max size you could fit in the LX570 enclosure with a spacer. Do you think that'll work? Am I risking the surround butting up against the grill? If i'm gunna have to get a new sub anyway to replace this fancy one I've got (DVC Image Dynamics IDQ10) I may just sell the one I've got and put the $ towards a really high quality 8" that will fit in my existing enclosure and not even mess with swapping enclosures. Thanks a ton for all the help! That other thread is amazing!

for The 10” enclosure the big problem wasn’t depth at the center, but depth at the ring, where my vertical basket shallow mount sub hit the box. I think a 5” traditional cone would fit with a 1/2” spacer, maybe even 5.5”. There are several options on the sub thread that folk were happy with that didn’t need a spacer.
agree that a high quality 8” is the easiest solution and I don’t think for most users would be any different audio wise from a 10. I had ordered the jbl 810 and for a small amp that still seems a good option. Obviously sky is the limit on subs . . .

 

[ekolpack]

for The 10” enclosure the big problem wasn’t depth at the center, but depth at the ring, where my vertical basket shallow mount sub hit the box. I think a 5” traditional cone would fit with a 1/2” spacer, maybe even 5.5”. There are several options on the sub thread that folk were happy with that didn’t need a spacer.
agree that a high quality 8” is the easiest solution and I don’t think for most users would be any different audio wise from a 10. I had ordered the jbl 810 and for a small amp that still seems a good option. Obviously sky is the limit on subs . . .

I got a line on an entire ML sub assembly for $150. I think I'm gunna pull the trigger. I can probably sell the OEM sub driver alone for $50, and the 8" unit I pull from my LC for $100, so it ends up being roughly a wash (not counting the leg work). I'm pretty damn confident I can make my 10" sub fit with a little push, push, grind, grind and shimmy shimmy. Thanks again man!

 

[ekolpack]

I disconnected the center speaker. I replaced the tweeters in the front pillars to dynaudio. Sound is pretty good.

Yeah I asked in a car audio forum what the deal is with the center speaker. I'm a FOH/studio mixing engineer by trade, and a 3-channel LCR system is something you never, ever see, even in the home hifi world....so why would you want it in your auto?

Apparently it was for the DVD 5.1 content, which is actually encoded with a discrete center channel. But while listening to music (stereo, 2 channels) the DSP sums all content that is common to both L and R to the center, therefor somewhat preserving phase coherence of the stereo image for both driver and passenger (still, one person will always be hearing a "lopsided", improperly time aligned mix for their mixing position no matter what).

Anyway, I've built speakers and designed acoustic treatment in tracking and control rooms, as well as calibrated studio equipment for maximum sound quality. I can't understand the need for a center dash speaker unless you really, really need that discrete center channel for DVD's (which granted, is very important in 5.1 mixing). Since I don't care about DVD's or 5.1 and won't have that feature anyway with my new head unit, I'll be disconnecting the center channel. Can always add it later if I feel the need to. Thanks!

 

[ekolpack]

Took a chance and ordered the ML LX570 enclosure. It was only $150, tough to beat. Fortunately the 5.5" overall depth IDQ10 will fit perfectly, even with a small spacer. Could probably get away with 1/4", but will probably go with a 1/2" to be safe and leave plenty of extra room between the magnet and the interior wall of the cabinet. And I'll have an entire LC sub assembly, plus ML 10" driver for sale to make up the $150 spent! Score!

 

[grinchy]

Glad it’s going to work out.

 

[greynolds]

Yeah I asked in a car audio forum what the deal is with the center speaker. I'm a FOH/studio mixing engineer by trade, and a 3-channel LCR system is something you never, ever see, even in the home hifi world....so why would you want it in your auto?

You certainly see it if the person has an interest in multichannel SACD, DVD Audio, or newer multichannel Dolby TrueHD / DTS HD Master Audio high bitrate surround mixes. My home system consists of 6 Revel Salon2's, a Voice2 center, and a pair of big subwoofers, for example, In my case, it's multipurpose for music, movies, and TV, but the electronics sort out when to use the center speaker and when not to.

 

[ekolpack]

Glad it’s going to work out.

Just confirmed it worked out beautifully! Thanks again grinchy!

 

[grinchy]

Nice flex putting in speaker terminal posts

 

[ekolpack]

Glad it’s going to work out.

Nice flex putting in speaker terminal posts

Good eye

Wired 4 ohm DVC's in parallel. Measuring 2.2 ohms (DC) between posts....should pull about 560W RMS out of my Gladen RC600. Sub is rated 500W RMS. 12awg OFC CL2 rated wire, gold plated binding posts, a dab of thread locker so terminals don't rattle loose.....should work beautifully.

Sub currently has no batting/fill inside. I'm going to test with/without fill and choose the one with better LF extension and reduced harmonics.

Thanks again for the help on this!

 

[Gary200akaJimmy]

Good eye

Wired 4 ohm DVC's in parallel. Measuring 2.2 ohms (DC) between posts....should pull about 560W RMS out of my Gladen RC600. Sub is rated 500W RMS. 12awg OFC CL2 rated wire, gold plated binding posts, a dab of thread locker so terminals don't rattle loose.....should work beautifully.

Sub currently has no batting/fill inside. I'm going to test with/without fill and choose the one with better LF extension and reduced harmonics.

Thanks again for the help on this!

ekolpack,

I am thinking of doing the same LX 570 box to my to my '17 LC in order to move to a larger 10" sub. How much better does the 10" sound and would you do it again or just go with an 8"? I go back and forth on a properly equipped 8" vs 10" for the volume our 200's have. I am about to dynomat the entire interior in prep of replacing all the speakers with Focals. I also have the same thought as you on the center dash speaker. Did you end up disconnecting yours and did it make a difference?

 

[ekolpack]

ekolpack,

I am thinking of doing the same LX 570 box to my to my '17 LC in order to move to a larger 10" sub. How much better does the 10" sound and would you do it again or just go with an 8"? I go back and forth on a properly equipped 8" vs 10" for the volume our 200's have. I am about to dynomat the entire interior in prep of replacing all the speakers with Focals. I also have the same thought as you on the center dash speaker. Did you end up disconnecting yours and did it make a difference?

Hey Gary/Jimmy,

I STILL haven't completed this rebuild. It's been a big project and it's all outdoors (no garage big enough to work on this beast) so winter was pretty much all down time. Also, the system I'm building is pretty ridiculous with all new amps and DSP, stuff hidden really well so it all looks stock. Amps use high end Hypex UcD modules. Anyway, it's been a hell of a project.

That said, I doubt you can go wrong with a bigger sub, especially if you upgrade the amp to actually push it properly (otherwise you may actually hear a DECREASE in bass as bigger speakers are generally harder to drive unless they have higher sensitivity). To upgrade the amp, get a speaker to line level converter. I've actually got an extra Gladen/Mosconi sub amp if you're interested. I'll let you know how things are sounding during the DSP tuning process....I'll definitely be updating this thread and posting videos.

 

[TomEf]

I can't understand the need for a center dash speaker unless you really, really need that discrete center channel for DVD's (which granted, is very important in 5.1 mixing). Since I don't care about DVD's or 5.1 and won't have that feature anyway with my new head unit, I'll be disconnecting the center channel. Can always add it later if I feel the need to. Thanks!

Other than it maybe being used as a center channel with 5.1 (not sure if it does), if you use the factory navigation or voice command stuff all the commands and audio comes from that center dash speaker.

 

[ekolpack]

Other than it maybe being used as a center channel with 5.1 (not sure if it does), if you use the factory navigation or voice command stuff all the commands and audio comes from that center dash speaker.

Ah, very good to know! As it turns out, the way I'm wiring it, I'll have one extra channel on my DSP, so I'll be hooking the center speaker up anyway, although I may not actually use it.

 

[Madtiger]

Center channel is to provide 7.1 DSP for music. Not movies. The idea of 7.1 in cars is NOT for movies…the 3 subwoofers of JBL/ML are too small to create the boom/rumble of bombs exploding. The subs are purely for music…you rarely need to go below 40 Hz for 98% of songs…thus you rarely see big subs in factory sound system, even the high end ones from big luxury names.

The center channel helps in providing the holy grail of car audio: “every seat in the car has same sound stage & quality” as the driver’s seat. Less lateralization of sound coming from right and left. More ambience. As if you’re sitting first row at concert.

 

[Madtiger]

Remember your car is NOT your home theater. You sit at the extreme corners of a box/rectangle. So you are not at the center of the car. Thus, the need for center channel. If you just use right and left channel…then you need to DSP the hell out of it to balance the sound for all occupants because every occupant will be closer to one speaker set than the others...and that is a nightmare to balance out. You will need to aim your speakers correctly, esp the midrange and tweeter. And this is why a lot of the mid-range and/or tweeter of most high-end factory systems aim up into the “acoustic” windshield to bounce sound to the whole cabin. The goal is to provide balance sound for every seat in the house. You will have a hard time with just left and right channels...if you aim for the driver only to get good sounds, then passengers will suffer from lateralization and poor stage.

So, your car is NOT your recording studio nor your home. It is much harsher environment and poor seating.