Using the spring loaded fish scale like the toyota service manual shows, I can get 8lbs consistently for the output pre-load. Toyota wants no more than 9lbs with new bearings. AA wants 10-12 lbs. If I add the thinnest shim it goes to a hair more than 12, which seems awfully tight. What have others ended up with?
orion pre-load (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter nasty habit
- Start date
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yup, thats exactly how mine set up poser , 13 with torque dial. did seem a bit tight so I spun it a bit with the output nut and rechecked , got 11 after a little spinning. still seemed tight compared to the dana 20 or stock toy tcases I've done. Beware , don't go light on the shift fork tention screw or you will be pullin it to tighten it . you know you did not go tight enough when it pops outa high range.
INCH POUNDS - just to emphasize.... 
desertdude
SILVER Star
Would be a nice idea to have an orion sticky faq, or a tech link for those of us yet to get greasy
believe there is an "official" install writeup pending from treerootCO....
Ah hell , from treeroot , you guys realize he only tests his s*** on the compost pile and the firewood chopping stump. Although he has answered every question I asked , So do we get to have the Orion Roundup on the con and invite all the Texas boys.
I have only been able to get around 3 lbs. on the fish scale. Actually, I get 5 lbs but correct to 3 because it's off by 2 lbs. The factory install manual says 2.6-9.9 lbs for new bearings. I called Brian at AA and he said to get it up to 10-13. I've re-done this a few times and have had all the shims installed and still can't get it past 3 or 4 lbs. Anyone have any ideas for me?
BTW, what's a good source for a dial in.lb. wrench?
TIA
Chris Hatfield
BTW, what's a good source for a dial in.lb. wrench?
TIA
Chris Hatfield
I picked up an "-# wrench from Harbor Freight for like $15 or so....not the best quality, but to use 3-4x in a lifetime, it's not bad...even comes with a hardcase.
fish scale is not torque wrench
I think that it's real important to note that pounds on the fish scale
and inch-pounds on the torque wrench are not the same thing
and cannot be equated to one another (unless by a total
coincidence). The torque measured by the fish scale is the
reading on the scale (in pounds) times the radial distance
between the center of rotation and the string on the fish scale.
Is this as clear as ih8MUD?
I think that it's real important to note that pounds on the fish scale
and inch-pounds on the torque wrench are not the same thing
and cannot be equated to one another (unless by a total
coincidence). The torque measured by the fish scale is the
reading on the scale (in pounds) times the radial distance
between the center of rotation and the string on the fish scale.
Is this as clear as ih8MUD?
treerootCO
Where are my keys?!
Don't knock the compost pile 
I went up Rollins for the maiden voyage and I have put a couple hundred highway miles on the Orion 465 combo. The gear wine seems to come and go. I plan on pulling the rear cover and driveshaft and doublecheck that everything is still ok. I wanted to change the fluid anyway after the initial break in. I have video of the beast up on Rollins if you need any non-photoshop proof
I used 3 shims to get to 2.2 kg in neutral. Each shim added approximately .5 kg. In 2 low, the resistance is about 4-5 kg.
I went up Rollins for the maiden voyage and I have put a couple hundred highway miles on the Orion 465 combo. The gear wine seems to come and go. I plan on pulling the rear cover and driveshaft and doublecheck that everything is still ok. I wanted to change the fluid anyway after the initial break in. I have video of the beast up on Rollins if you need any non-photoshop proof
I used 3 shims to get to 2.2 kg in neutral. Each shim added approximately .5 kg. In 2 low, the resistance is about 4-5 kg.
I would like to second that and also mention the fact that the fish scale is called a fish scale not a torque measuring device. Please don't use a fish scale , please , that is a 1,600.00 transfer case and you wanna set it up with ? What the fawk are you thinking , I realize not everyone has access to a dial torque wrench but jeez , I would also like to say that upon build up my orion felt as if it were to tight also , that is just how they set up , it is o.k. , run it. The fella that can't get more than 3-4 lbs. of resistance is got a problem , seriously check that set up , did you get all the stuff on the output shaft on and in right order? what gasket did you use for the nose cone ? The rear housing that the shims go underneath kinda fits tight in the case , are you sure it is seating correctly ?
treerootCO
Where are my keys?!
I trust the FSM. Sure, I don't have the SST, but I trust the FSM and it doesn't say inch pounds anywhere.
I drove down to Parker to help Chris with his Orion. We agreed that his bearing preload was too tight and all of us have seen the pictures of the failed bearing set to ft pounds(not correct). It is a tapered bearing, it shouldn't be tight. It should be adjusted to zero out any movement between the two bearings. I know it took me a few tries to get everything set up. I leared to seat the bearing race on the front ouput completely. Do not seat the bearing race on the odo housing. The shims and the odo housing press the bearing into the case. As I added shims, the bearing preload went up the same amount each time. I used the gaskets provided and there is zero play in the shaft. The brake drum turns with some resistance, with everything assembled and in gear, but nothing like what people have been describing. Bearing preload in neutral was 2.2 kg like the FSM suggests.
I drove down to Parker to help Chris with his Orion. We agreed that his bearing preload was too tight and all of us have seen the pictures of the failed bearing set to ft pounds(not correct). It is a tapered bearing, it shouldn't be tight. It should be adjusted to zero out any movement between the two bearings. I know it took me a few tries to get everything set up. I leared to seat the bearing race on the front ouput completely. Do not seat the bearing race on the odo housing. The shims and the odo housing press the bearing into the case. As I added shims, the bearing preload went up the same amount each time. I used the gaskets provided and there is zero play in the shaft. The brake drum turns with some resistance, with everything assembled and in gear, but nothing like what people have been describing. Bearing preload in neutral was 2.2 kg like the FSM suggests.
I must be doing something really wrong. I'll take it all apart and try again. I haven't pulled the shaft apart yet. And I'll stop by Harbor Freight and find a in./lb. torque wrench. Even with ALL the shims installed, including the one that came out of the stock case, I still can't get more than 2-3 lbs on the fish scale. OK, OK, bad to use a fish scale. Something interesting is I do have some "play" in the gears, even with all the shims in. Plus, every 3-5 turns of the brake drum the shaft binds and then, of course, I get too much preload!! Crap!! This is real frustrating. Maybe I'm missing a thrust washer or something. This is why I don't do this for a living. ;p
Chris
Chris
- Thread starter
- #16
spring scale and inch pounds
With AA making a big boo boo in their first issue instructions (ft. lbs instead of inch lbs.) I was a bit spooked on the pre load. Since I didn't have an inch pound torque wrench, and couldn't come up with one in timely fashion, I followed the Toyota service manual which AA says is fine but they want more than Toyota, 10-13 POUNDS. Using the spring scale/emer drum method I came up with 8 lbs (not foot pounds) Being paranoid, (felt too damn tight) I played with it till I got 6 lbs. and left it at that, even though AA says to get 10 to 13 using the spring scale. NAPA finally found an inch pound beam type wrench. Came up with 18 inch pounds. Happy day! 10 highway miles and about 4 of rocks and nothing has blown apart yet. Quiet and shifts in and out smoothly. Using Exxon superflo 80/90 lube cause thats what I feed the whole truck. Oh yeah-tightened the shift fork detent ball/spring down to stop and then backed it off 4 turns. Sure not insinuating that spring scale equates to X amount of inch pounds, just throwing more info into the Orion info pile. Thanks!
With AA making a big boo boo in their first issue instructions (ft. lbs instead of inch lbs.) I was a bit spooked on the pre load. Since I didn't have an inch pound torque wrench, and couldn't come up with one in timely fashion, I followed the Toyota service manual which AA says is fine but they want more than Toyota, 10-13 POUNDS. Using the spring scale/emer drum method I came up with 8 lbs (not foot pounds) Being paranoid, (felt too damn tight) I played with it till I got 6 lbs. and left it at that, even though AA says to get 10 to 13 using the spring scale. NAPA finally found an inch pound beam type wrench. Came up with 18 inch pounds. Happy day! 10 highway miles and about 4 of rocks and nothing has blown apart yet. Quiet and shifts in and out smoothly. Using Exxon superflo 80/90 lube cause thats what I feed the whole truck. Oh yeah-tightened the shift fork detent ball/spring down to stop and then backed it off 4 turns. Sure not insinuating that spring scale equates to X amount of inch pounds, just throwing more info into the Orion info pile. Thanks!
I came out with similar numbers as nasty habit. Mine had a little slop in the gears too as in they moved back and forth on the shaft like 1/16 of an inch but the mesh with other gears was o.k. and at full travel both ways there was no case or gear interferance. There is a spacer that goes on that output , I think it is first thing on after the bearing in nose cone. How does the shaft in the nose cone feel , does it run true , should be tight and 0 end play.
Just because you named your compost pile Rollins does not change anything. i got some good freeway time in too and so far so good. Quiet as hell in low range. No backslap when lettin off the gas , 0 backlash in t-case . Nice write up tree , props , can I borrow that stump to test my articulation . I loved the before and after , I did not even realize you were the tard who could not get the flapper shackles to open
Just because you named your compost pile Rollins does not change anything. i got some good freeway time in too and so far so good. Quiet as hell in low range. No backslap when lettin off the gas , 0 backlash in t-case . Nice write up tree , props , can I borrow that stump to test my articulation . I loved the before and after , I did not even realize you were the tard who could not get the flapper shackles to open
treerootCO
Where are my keys?!
I haven't drained the oil yet, maybe tomorrow. I would really like to take her on some more challenging trails but I ran into clearance issues with the MTRs. The sidewalls rub on the frame/fender well if I drive up a curb. The last time, I cut the sidewall. Feel free to keep your MTR vs. SS comments to yourself. It has nothing to do with the bump stops either, we're talking about a 5" curb. I would prefer not to run spacers or more than a standard offset rim. Unfortunately that means no "real" wheeling until I get the FJ60 axles under her. I still have a skid plate to make, need to weld up the cage, mount the 4 point harness, and install the longs. On top of that, the 2F is on it's last leg. Good times.
treerootCO
Where are my keys?!
Well. I think I FINALLY figured my problem out. The bearing AA sent me is different. It looks the same and is the same thickness as the original bearing, but sitting in the race it is a different height! The original bearing/race combination is thicker than with the bearing AA supplied me. My original bearing is a Koyo 30307A and the supplied one is a 30307JR-4.
Of course now, with no shims I'm a little tight according to the fish scale. Maybe 16-18 lbs. I think I can live with that.
Chris
Of course now, with no shims I'm a little tight according to the fish scale. Maybe 16-18 lbs. I think I can live with that.
Chris
