Best turbo/ turbo specs for turboed 5l? (1 Viewer)

[gerg]

If all you want is 10 lbs go with the 13t. Most efficient at around 2500rpm up to 3500rpm. Nice wide operating range. Room for some growth when you upgrade your motor. The compressor is the easy part. Turbine is the more complicated and the more important question. When do you want it to boost? Im in the process of building a twin scroll turbo for a friend that has a bj42 with a B engine and am going with a 8.5cm td04L-13t. If it wasn't twin scroll id go with the 6cm housing. If you like to rev it up a lot id say go for the td04HL 6cm which you can get in a 7cm housing as well as the hard to find 5cm version.

 

[advlars]

I guess Id have to do some research regarding removing metal from this particular head. Removing anything from around the exhaust valves makes me nervous, as I believe the typical cracking point on an L series is around the valves.

If youre not worried about the boost damaging the precups gerg, what do you recommend for boost pressure for an idi motor with a 22.2:1 compression ratio?

I think you lost me here though:

The compressor is the easy part. Turbine is the more complicated and the more important question. When do you want it to boost?

I thought 13t was the model number for the whole cartridge. Is that just the compressor? and if so, what should I be looking for turbine wise?

Obviously gobs of boost off of idle would be fun, but Im mostly shooting for conservative and reliable. I dont want to choke up my exhaust and run high EGTs

 

[dare]

There's nothing wrong with T25 turbos, they're just dime a dozen. They are older tech than most things in this thread but they aren't super high trim paddle wheel dinosaurs either.

Just crunching the numbers (as gerg has) for 10psi

90% VE 1500rpm no intercooler = 7.35lb/min airflow

Dunno what your gearing is but my 2L is 2700@110kmh/70mph. Greater efficiency at cruise gets you better economy. I've assumed this is at 10psi too, it probably wont be but a big camper and all those revs could push it there.

80% VE 2700rpm = 11.76 lb/min

The 5L starts pulling fuel at 4200rpm so I've set that at the max. Doesn't really matter is your turbine is choking up if you aren't getting as much fuel. The governed limit is 5100rpm.

75% VE 4200rpm = 17.15 lb/min

MHI Turbo compressor maps use cubic metres per second instead of LBs/min so the numbers are 0.046@1500rpm 0.074@cruise 0.108@4200.

Add 10-15% to those numbers if you're intercooled.

GT2052 52trim. Good sruge margin, 77% efficiency at cruise, peak flow @10psi 19.5lb/min
GT2056 56tim. GSM, 76%, PF24
GT2259 52trim. GSM, 74%, just on peak flow
HE211. GSM, 70%, 25pf
HE221w. GSM 68%, 23.5 peak flow
HX25. GSM, 74%, 21pf
TD04-9B. GSM, 74%, just on peak flow
TD04L-13t. GSM, 75%, 0.15 peak flow
TD04-16t. Just on surge, 70% cruise, 0.18peak flow
TD04-19T. Close to sruge, 73%, 0.17pf

Those are just the compressors, turbines are another story. Out of those the GT2052 and TD04L-13T look the best, they also have suitable turbines. The 13T can come with a wide range of turbines and housings, it has more reserve flow both in terms of pressure ratio and peak flow, it's easy to upgrade to a different compressor, parts are easier to get and it's cheaper. It's the one I'd go for.

I thought 13t was the model number for the whole cartridge. Is that just the compressor? and if so, what should I be looking for turbine wise?

With MHI turbos TD04 is the family of turbos, the L, H, HL or no letter are the turbine size and the 9B/13T/16T ect are the compressor.

Gerg runs all of the boost in his high compression IDI!

Gotta go to work, talk later.

 

[Mcreight911]

If your doing loaded driving in hilly country the td04L 13t would be better to drive . Look for one with an extended tip billet compressor . Or rebuild one and add the billet compressor . Or the holset he211wg if budget isn't an issue and you want a t25 exhaust inlet .

 

[gerg]

Running high EGTs are a choice. When you add a turbo you gain the ability to add extra air to the engine where as before you could only control fuel. By adding extra air (boost) you can manipulate the egts a lot. Now it takes power to add boost but you can trade a bit of power for a safer tune. Cooler egts that is.

Yeah id have to agree the smaller L turbine would be on boost all the time when your shifting and is a very good all round turbo. There wouldn't be any waiting for the turbo to "spool". It would be very drivable. I have run that turbo on a 3B (3.5L) many times and it is a very pleasant turbo. I only really speak MHI turbos but anything similarly sized is suitable for your goals. Its good your putting your goals out there first as lots of folks shoot for the biggest turbo they can find for the best peak power and regret it. Its like saying I want 4x4 tires and buying 44"swapmers for your daily driver. Might not be the best all round tire to put on.

If cracks develop around exhaust valves then leave them alone. I deshrouded mine to allow the exhaust to exit easier. Exhaust flow is the real key to engine power. No sense shoving tons of air into a cylinder that didn't empty the exhaust fully in the first place. It takes energy to pressurize air. Improving exhaust flow take labor but the gains are free and you can make more power by running less boost with lower egts.

For example. Many turbos ago on my 3B I ran max fuel boosting 24psi with a te04H-6cm-13T intercooled. Max egts were just shy of 1200f WOT

Currently im running a td04Hl-8.5cm twin scroll-13t intercooled running 14psi. max egts are 1100F WOT and im making a lot more power throughout the entire rev range. The engine cruise egts are 150F cooler then before.

Both turbos are essentially the same size except for the exhaust housing and running on the same fuel on the same motor. The only difference is exhaust flow.

 

[advlars]

Man, you guys rock.

Sounds like the td04L will be great.

Any thoughts on 13t vs 14t? Im assuming the 14 will lose a little boost on the low end and gain some higher, but how noticable will this be? There are some volvo td04-14t with some flanges that look much easier to fab than the subarus wierd 3bolt housing. It looks like the port is a little bigger as well

Im finding info on the exhaust inlet sizes are suprisingly hard to find...

 

[gerg]

The 14t strangely is a smaller compressor wheel.

 

[dare]

T25 to Subaru adapter, no fabrication needed.

cast iron turbocharger TD04 TD05 T25 turbo exhaust manifold flange adapter | eBay

 

[advlars]

The 14t strangely is a smaller compressor wheel.

Haha. Ugh. Just when I thought I was figuring this all out... Sooo... If its got the same turbine but a smaller compressor, it would spool very similarly across engine-rpm but produce a bit less boost? Could this actually be a better option for me? Or am I missing some turbo fundamentals here again?

 

[Mcreight911]

generally with mhi compressor numbers, bigger number means bigger wheel .
I would choose the 13t . It has an inducer almost 1mm larger then the 14t so can flow a small amount more air and an exducer 5mm larger. i would expect boost threshold would be within 50rpm and the 13t to reach max boost sooner than the 14t . Although I have no experience with the 14t, just an educated guess looking at the wheel dimensions. Your thoughts @gerg

 

[gerg]

The 13t is a better choice.
You should spend some time reading about turbo basics. It would make things easier for you.

 

[advlars]

Ive been reading and watching youtube videos by the truck load but there is a lot of BS and misinformation to sift through on the internet. If youve got some recommended reading, Im all ears.

Also, if anyone can recommend a good comprehensive resource comparing turbo specs that would be great. Its been a nightmare trying to compare inlets and outlets and a/r ratios etc. Especially across brands...

 

[drewgold]

Bringing an old thread back from the archives! Awesome info here.

I have similar goals to @advlars and the TD04L-13t sounds like one of my best options.

My truck is a Toyota Dyna with the 5L, I drive loaded a lot (1.25t gvm) and spend a lot of time in hilly terrain and at altitude.

My priorities are fuel economy, reliability and least added stress/heat possible. I don’t need loads more power, just a bit more to be able to maintain highway speeds more easily and keep the speed up a bit more on big climbs.

I recently picked up an SPA T25 Turbo manifold for a really good price so revisiting plans for a turbo.

The TD04 turbos seem a bit harder to come by these days.

Being as this thread is over 6 years old, wondering if there are any newer turbos I should be considering?

I have a friend that will give me an old 1KZ turbo from his Hiace van for free. There was mention of this earlier in the thread being a possibility. How would it compare to the TD04L-13t? Free is always worth considering.

Not looking to spend crazy amounts of cash on a turbo but if there were a very good option that’s a bit more expensive, I’d certainly consider it. Open to suggestions!

Not really planning to install an intercooler, is one really necessary if keeping fueling stock or only slightly more fuel?

Hoping some of the experts here are still around and can chime in!

 

[advlars]

Glad to see this getting resurrected and see someone pursuing a similar project. Godspeed and good luck.

Im hardly the expert on turbo's/turbo specs etc so I'll let the pros weigh in there. But, Id be surprised if there were any modern turbos that are significantly better for the purposes of bolting it to a 25+ year mechanically injected diesel. Fwiw, im nothing but happy with my td04. My build thread: 5L-T build with a TD04L turbo in an 85 Pickup - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/5l-t-build-with-a-td04l-turbo-in-an-85-pickup.968657/ If you went the td04 route I might be able to track down a cad file for the adapter.

I would strongly vote for the intercooler though. Im also running very mild boost but L-series engines are famous for cracking heads when your egts run hot. If youre gonna go through the effort of adapting a turbo to a manifold and fabbing a new exhaust etc etc I think the cost and effort to fit an intercooler is more than worth it.

 

[philb]

I am in the process of replacing my ct20 turbo on a 2LTE hilux pickup. I decided to go with a holset he211w. Smaller turbo, bolts up nicely, achieves boost at a very low rev range which translates to lower egt’s

 

[drewgold]

Glad to see this getting resurrected and see someone pursuing a similar project. Godspeed and good luck.

Im hardly the expert on turbo's/turbo specs etc so I'll let the pros weigh in there. But, Id be surprised if there were any modern turbos that are significantly better for the purposes of bolting it to a 25+ year mechanically injected diesel. Fwiw, im nothing but happy with my td04. My build thread: 5L-T build with a TD04L turbo in an 85 Pickup - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/5l-t-build-with-a-td04l-turbo-in-an-85-pickup.968657/ If you went the td04 route I might be able to track down a cad file for the adapter.

I would strongly vote for the intercooler though. Im also running very mild boost but L-series engines are famous for cracking heads when your egts run hot. If youre gonna go through the effort of adapting a turbo to a manifold and fabbing a new exhaust etc etc I think the cost and effort to fit an intercooler is more than worth it.

Thanks for the reply @advlars , your truck is still going strong? How many kilometers have you put on it since you installed the turbo? What kind of gas mileage are you getting?

Thanks for the offer on the CAD file, I have found a few adapters online for about $50 that should do the job but failing that, I’ll hit you up for the file!

Makes sense re the intercooler. I just have to explore some piping options. Two issues with my setup are that the cab-over setup doesn’t leave much space to run piping, and I have AC and the compressor is completely in the way of where piping would typically run for an intercooler.

I’m debating completely re-working my intake, going from the stock location of front left to the location on the newer Dynas and most Hiace vans which is right behind the right door. Makes feeding the intake side of the turbo much easier.

 

[drewgold]

I am in the process of replacing my ct20 turbo on a 2LTE hilux pickup. I decided to go with a holset he211w. Smaller turbo, bolts up nicely, achieves boost at a very low rev range which translates to lower egt’s

I have looked at the Holset and am thinking they’re worth considering. Others had mentioned them previously in this thread.

Can @gerg or @dare or anyone else advise on how the The td04 13t 6cm would compare to the Holset he211 5cm or holset he221 5.5/6cm? Any other Holsets to consider?
EDIT: Realized that the Holset turbos are not water cooled, what are the implications of this on an engine that wasn't originally designed for a turbo? Would there be sufficient oil cooling?

My goals are very similar to @advlars, conservative goals. Driving with heavy loads, lots of time at altitude, reliability/drivability is a priority.

I cruise at 2800rpm at 100kph to about 3000rpm at 110kph. May look at re-gearing at some point to bring the RPM’s down a bit. Ideally 2600-2800 @ 110kph.

 

[advlars]

@drewgold, I'm unsure of total miles or exact mpgs. If i had to guess... something like 24 mpg heavily loaded on big tires and 4.88s. I built a big square expedition camper and traveled the country for a good while. Hard heavy miles with a big aerodynamic anchor. Plenty of mechanicals along the way but never a problem with the engine or turbo. It got grumpy at super high elevation (12k+ feet) and takes some effort to fire up below freezing (but it's diesel so no surprise there). Trucks been mostly parked recently but it runs fine when I ask it to.

@philb, can you elaborate on "bolts up nicely"? How much fab is needed?

 

[drewgold]

@drewgold, I'm unsure of total miles or exact mpgs. If i had to guess... something like 24 mpg heavily loaded on big tires and 4.88s. I built a big square expedition camper and traveled the country for a good while. Hard heavy miles with a big aerodynamic anchor. Plenty of mechanicals along the way but never a problem with the engine or turbo. It got grumpy at super high elevation (12k+ feet) and takes some effort to fire up below freezing (but it's diesel so no surprise there). Trucks been mostly parked recently but it runs fine when I ask it to.

Good to hear the engine has been running well with the turbo! And great to hear about your general experiences with your truck. What size tires are you running?
Any idea what you curb weight is with your camper setup?

The Dynas are beefy trucks, especially the dual cab version. My truck's curb weight is 1730kg (~3900lbs) and max weight rating is 3060kg (~6800lbs) (about 1.3ton payload rating)
My 'normal' loaded weight is around 2500-2800kg (5500-6200lbs)
I currently run 31x10.5R15 tires which are great and generally very capable but in an ideal world I'd like to run 33's. I'm thinking that the stock 5L engine just doesn't have enough power to push the heavier 33's comfortably though. Sounds like a turbo would make 33's much more manageable. My gearing is 4.556. Also in an ideal world I'd go to a 4.11 with 31" tires or 33" tires may be comfortable with the 4.556. Currently with 31's I cruise at 2800 RPM @ ~100kph which is ok but a little higher than I'd like.

What sort of issues did you run into at altitude? I drive at altitude a fair bit but not too often at over 12k feet.

Interesting that it takes some effort to fire up in cold weather. Maybe related to fueling? Or could this be related to the turbo itself? I have been incredibly impressed with my trucks ability to start in cold weather. It has reliably started down to -25C after sitting for two days and absoutely no heat, it doesn't sound happy but has started every time. I use an oil pan heater and battery blanket and the truck has fired up even at -35C. Very impressive for a diesel. I assume this is thanks to the high compression on these engines. Still wanting to plumb in a proper coolant heater at some point though.

 

[philb]

@drewgold, I'm unsure of total miles or exact mpgs. If i had to guess... something like 24 mpg heavily loaded on big tires and 4.88s. I built a big square expedition camper and traveled the country for a good while. Hard heavy miles with a big aerodynamic anchor. Plenty of mechanicals along the way but never a problem with the engine or turbo. It got grumpy at super high elevation (12k+ feet) and takes some effort to fire up below freezing (but it's diesel so no surprise there). Trucks been mostly parked recently but it runs fine when I ask it to.

@philb, can you elaborate on "bolts up nicely"? How much fab is needed?

So I am still in the process of getting everything fitted, haven’t run into any issues…yet, so take with a grain of salt!

My truck has a 2LTE engine, so was already fitted with a turbo in stock form. Instead of trying to fab adaptors (I don’t have the ability to do that myself) I purchased a new manifold from HD automotive ( 2L 3L 5L HIGH MOUNT TURBO MANIFOLD - HD Automotive - https://hdautomotive.com.au/product/2l-3l-5l-high-mount/ ).

This manifold is already suited to the holset turbo so haven’t had to fab anything other than a new down pipe.

I decided to go with the he211 vs the he221 due to quicker spooling at lower rpm’s fuel. I don’t have the funds to switch to a mechanical injection set up, so from my research I get more benefit from the quicker spool.