Calling for help (1 Viewer)

[Leandro]

hi guys
I just got my HAM license yesterday so I'm absolutely new to this, so I apologize in advance if this is a stupid question.
I bought a baofeng handheld radio with the intention to communicate on the trail and also to call for help if something bad happens and there's no cell phone signal.
My question is, what's the procedure on an emergency?
You get into one of the national calling frequencies and wait for someone to respond?
Get into a local repeater and hope there's someone listening?
Is there an emergency frequency where there's someone always listening?
You start scanning until you stump into someone else communication?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Dharma Dude]

First and sadly, I wouldn't *NEVER* *EVER* rely completely on my Ham radio in an emergency, if my life depended on it. There are just not enough people listening on the repeaters any more. But having said that, before you go make sure you have programmed in all the repeaters in the area you will be wheeling. And test that you can hit the repeaters before you get in trouble. When in trouble, you just call MAYDAY (M'AIDEZ) on the repeater and pray somebody is listening.

What do I rely on for emergency? I have an older version of the Garmin InReach, i.e. the DeLorme InReach
It uses the Iridium satellite system and is staffed 24x7 for SOS calls. You can set it up so that it updates the InReach web site with your location periodically (at you preferred interval down to 10 minutes). So your loved ones can track your whereabouts.

There is a subscription fee but no contract, so I only pay for the months that I actually use it.

There are also personal locator systems that are far more reliable than ham radio but they don't offer texting (like the InReach) or have contracts.

 

[izzyandsue]

A few things Leandro, some of the question you are asking would be part of the exam, do you have a handbook you got for it? Next, see if you have a HAM club near you, go to their meeting, join it, ask them those questions as they may have local and regional knowledge for the different repeaters, range, autopatch, etc. They would likely own the towers and can help. Practice, join some ragchews or net meetings, and you will feel better about using it.
Finally, make sure your radio and antenna has enough power to reach on 2M or 70cm. Again, ask your local club members, they will be very happy to share their knowledge

 

[Leandro]

The manuals I stufied from only mention emergency organizations like ARES that operate when there's a catastrophe. Couldn't find anything about making distress calls. I did find some information online.

BTW, another newbie question. Sometimes I call a repeater, say my call sign and immediately after I get a response in morse code. Does that mean that I made contact with the repeater?

 

[izzyandsue]

You don't have to do that on a repeater. You simply get to their frequency, listen for a few minutes to make sure it is clear, then hit your transmit button and wait for the repeater to self identify. The CW you hear is their identification.

 

[izzyandsue]

I really hope you got your license, if not, this is a great study resource that answers a lot of questions you are asking. A lot of them where on the exam:

Radio Merit Badge Resources

 

[half k cruiser]

If you are planning on calling out with that little Baofeng, keep in mind it only transmits at 5 watts. From my experience with them your going to be lucky to get out more than 2 miles on the trail and about 5-6 miles on the open highway. Most of the mobile units, even the entry level stuff will have 10x the power output and markedly more range.

 

[Leandro]

You don't have to do that on a repeater. You simply get to their frequency, listen for a few minutes to make sure it is clear, then hit your transmit button and wait for the repeater to self identify. The CW you hear is their identification.

I know is their identification, but it is in response to my call? Because it will be a hell of a coincidence that 3 out of 5 repeaters do that right after my call.

 

[Leandro]

If you are planning on calling out with that little Baofeng, keep in mind it only transmits at 5 watts. From my experience with them your going to be lucky to get out more than 2 miles on the trail and about 5-6 miles on the open highway. Most of the mobile units, even the entry level stuff will have 10x the power output and markedly more range.

The model i have is 8 watts and I successfully contacted repeaters at 6 miles in the city. Actually had a great conversation with a group of hams that were very welcoming.

 

[Leandro]

I really hope you got your license, if not, this is a great study resource that answers a lot of questions you are asking. A lot of them where on the exam:

Radio Merit Badge Resources

View attachment 1590506 View attachment 1590507

That is exactly what I found. But what if there's no conversation to interrupt? My question is how do you do yourself noticeable.

 

[ChaseTruck]

I think there's no simple general answer.

I spend a fair amount of time on trails in the greater Phoenix area. There is a very active group of 4x4 Hams, and they've built a set of linked repeaters, many of them located high up on mountains. I've had no problem reaching some of those repeaters with a Baofeng 5 watt HT with a 771 antenna from 15 miles out or more; as I understand it that means you can reach the rest of the linked stations as well. Furthermore, the Ham community on those repeaters is quite active - it seems there's almost always someone on frequency, and could potentially to hear an emergency call. As for cell service for trails in the area, it's spotty - maybe you can get a text out, maybe not. So the Ham radio would be a good option in case of an emergency.

Here in Baton Rouge, there is no such thing as linked 2m repeaters; in fact, this limitation became fairly obvious during a recent ARES session (we had snow here, so that's a winter emergency...), where net control dropped off frequency and it left the rest of the net in a bit of a lurch. I had no problems hitting the designated repeater from the Yaesu FR1900r in my 80 here: 50W, 1/4 wave 2m antenna on a mg mount in the middle of the roof, distance to the repeater ~ 25 miles; didn't try lower power. But the fact is that on any given day, there's very little traffic on any of the repeaters around here (including the one run by my club), so an emergency call would probably not get heard. Then again, this is an urban area, I'd probably use the cell phone if I had to. Yet, during the flood of 2016 in Baton Rouge, AT&T cell service suffered significant disruption...

A few years ago, we're in northern AZ / southern UT backcountry: I dutifully programmed repeater data into my radios. Never heard a sign of any transmission on any of those frequencies. Could have been me and my beginner radio skills, could have been the geography, but all frequencies were actually quite silent...

I think there is the possibility to make an actual telephone call via Ham radio, but I never tried this...

 

[half k cruiser]

The model i have is 8 watts and I successfully contacted repeaters at 6 miles in the city. Actually had a great conversation with a group of hams that were very welcoming.

I think you are missing the point I was trying to make. That's great that you are hitting repeaters in the city. You can also just whip out your cell phone and call somebody. The point was that if you are somewhere that your cellphone isn't working, then that repeater is going to have to be damn close for your 8watt handie talkie to reach it.

 

[KliersLC]

I think you are missing the point I was trying to make. That's great that you are hitting repeaters in the city. You can also just whip out your cell phone and call somebody. The point was that if you are somewhere that your cellphone isn't working, then that repeater is going to have to be damn close for your 8watt handie talkie to reach it.

Yes, but with that is with the factory antenna. A cheap 20 dollar dual band mag mount antenna will push the range out to 10-15 miles and a good antenna will do even better. I was very unhappy with the performance of the baofeng initially but even a upgraded portable antenna makes a huge difference with those.

 

[SmoothLC]

I've had no problem reaching some of those repeaters with a Baofeng 5 watt HT with a 771 antenna from 15 miles out or more; as I understand it that means you can reach the rest of the linked stations as well.

Take @half k cruiser's advice. Don't rely on your 8 watter. I may have the same or similar Baofeng radio as you and it can reach out to 15 to 20 miles in the SLC valley w/ a Larsen 2/70 similar to @ChaseTruck's experience in Phoenix. But a mobile will give you more range than an HT, certainly with a rubber ducky antenna, with a dedicated 1/4 wave antenna. You want additional options.

 

[Dharma Dude]

I disagree. I think the Boafeng with a good externally mounted antenna is good enough for 90% of what a VHF radio is good for, communication between rigs in a group. I have a used Yaesu VX-7r and have never felt the need for anything else.

If you're looking for peace of mind in an emergency, get a satellite locator like the InReach with 24x7 monitoring staff. See my message earlier.

Hitting a repeater isn't enough.....somebody has to be listening and there is no guarantee of that anymore, at least in the places I go.

 

[Joel Kasper]

All these answers are correct. First I am not sure anyone answered your question on the response from the repeater.

When the repeater detects a signal (you keyed the repeater) it will identify when you are done transmitting. That does not mean anyone other than the repeater heard your transmission. Only when a real person responds can you know.

My general answer the the 8 watt handheld is not ideal for emergency calls unless you are wheeling in an area with lots of repeaters that are well monitored or a linked repeater that is linked to many repeaters. 8 watts will work well communicating in your group.

Mayday, Break Break Emergency or Help will work and are perfectly legal if someone hears you.

Most places I have wheeled have a repeater close enough that a 50 watt mobile and good antenna will reach it.

If you want even more power the is the 80 watt Yaesu FT-2980R or the 85 watt Alinco DR-B185HT but if you remember you test material the extra power will not get you the extra distance it would seem. (focus on the antenna)

Hope this helped

 

[Dharma Dude]

50W, 100W, 1000W VHF is not good enough if nobody is listening. Stick with the 8W and a good external antenna and save yourself some money.

As for the repeaters identification question, some clarification.

Repeaters only need to identify periodically (every 10 minutes mininum) when in use. See When does a repeater have to ID itself?

Many repeaters will self-identify if you're the first to key it after a long while and then periodically after that. They'll stop id'ing after some idle time. If you key the repeater right after somebody else has done so, it will just beep, no ID.

 

[Leandro]

Thank you all for the responses. Basically covered all my questions.
I know that no radio is good if nobody is listening. I added a nagoya mag mount antena 1/4 wave and also bought a portable antena to replace the rubber duck.
I did figure out that the repeaters were identifying themselves when I keyed in, my question was because I was surprised that reached a repeater at 14 miles, nobody was listening, so can't tell if the power was good enough for someone to understand what I was saying.
Regarding the emergency call, I was interested on knowing if there was an emergency nationwide network. I know now that there's not.

Thanks again and sorry for the annoyance.

 

[k9mojo]

Leandro i have not been a ham but a couple years in a very inactive area, but its picking up. but i ran a uv5r with a battery eliminator and mag antenna. now im in south georgia so line of sight is pretty good, that said i can kick a repeater 25 miles away another 23 miles away.

 

[Dharma Dude]

Thank you all for the responses. Basically covered all my questions.
I know that no radio is good if nobody is listening. I added a nagoya mag mount antena 1/4 wave and also bought a portable antena to replace the rubber duck.
I did figure out that the repeaters were identifying themselves when I keyed in, my question was because I was surprised that reached a repeater at 14 miles, nobody was listening, so can't tell if the power was good enough for someone to understand what I was saying.
Regarding the emergency call, I was interested on knowing if there was an emergency nationwide network. I know now that there's not.

Thanks again and sorry for the annoyance.

Some repeaters can auto report your signal strength. My local repeater N6NFI will report my signal strength if I key in 699, and it will utter my signal strength as S1 through S9. I bet a few other repeaters might offer a similar feature. Of course, hitting a signal with enough strength doesn't mean you're audible. For that you need somebody listening.