Power Window Switch Fix w/ Relays

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sandcruiser

....back in the saddle again....
Joined
Sep 29, 2004
Threads
199
Messages
3,643
Location
Pacific Grove, CA
There are some other threads out there that address this concept, most notably:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/79-95-toyota-truck-tech/213396-power-window-homebrew-fix.html

But I didn't see anything specific to the 80 series so thought I'd include my experience.

I've had problems with slow windows since I bought the 1991 rig in 2007. I've tried breaking down all the switches and cleaning them out (there is a writeup around here somewhere).

Cleaning the contacts seems to have helped, but shortly afterwards I was back to glacial window movement (or none at all).

So when my passenger side window failed in the rain, I had finally had enough and decided to install some relays in an attempt to make it work better.

I'm happy with the results! I think that it could be done even better. When I redo the back windows I'll go the extra mile (see below) but for now, there is improvement.

I'll try to do a sketch for the wiring as well, but in words--- here it goes.

parts:
2 bosch relays
some wire
butt and spade terminals
heat shrink
zip ties
diagonal cut plier
crimping pliers
wire strippers



The wiring is pretty simple:
In stock form, the current arrives through a blue/black wire to the switch. there are 4 wires that leave the switch-- 1 black, 1 red, and two others. The others I left alone.

I cut the black and the red and the blue/black each about an inch away from the switch. I ran a jumper from the blue/black (+12v) to the blue black wire on the switch.

I also ran a 12ga wire from a bolt on the dash (ground) through the door grommet, to the relays.

I then wired up the two relays as follows:

Relay 1:
30: Connects to the black wire that goes to window motor
87a (nc): To Ground wire
87 (no): +12 v from black/blue wire
86: to ground wire
85: black wire that goes to switch

Relay 2:
30: connects to red wire that goes to window motor
87a (nc): To ground wire
87 (no): +12 v from black/blue wire
86: to ground wire
85: to red wire that goes to switch


it's that simple. I did use jumpers to connect the wires to the relays so that things weren't so very tight in there.

Now, when the switch is activated, it trips the relay and current flows through the motor and to ground through the new, shorter, fatter ground wire.

When the master switch is activated, it completes a ground circuit which also activates the relay(s) to move the window. The primary difference is that now the current that flows through the motor has a short distance in big wire to go to ground, whereas it used to go all the way to the driver's door and pass through the switch there, which causes arcing and pitting and eventually failure.

The only current traveling through the master switch is the current to switch the relay(s)- a very small amount.


Here's my super-uber-wow its bad Paint version:
windowrelay.jpg


the important details are that you connect pole 30 to the motor wires, and pole 87 to the +12v. Don't do it the other way around or you'll have a short.

A *better* way to do this would be to pull a 'new' wire with +12v from a fuse on the battery. That would give a lot more juice to the window motor, and would allow you to leave the blue/black wire untouched. I did notice that the blue/black wire has a voltage drop of about 0.2 volts (battery shows 12.5, wire to battery shows 12.3 ) it isn't a big drop, but it could make a small difference.

The relays fit in the arm rest, pretty easily. I used 4" pigtails to make connections, if I had used 8" of wire instead, it would have been a little easier to cram stuff in. Better still would be to use relay sockets, but I didn't have 'em handy. I'll use them in the back seat controls if I get around to fixing those any time soon.

This was really easy- took maybe 2 hours, including the time I wasted "inventing" the circuit and testing it out. I could probably do it again in less than an hour.

Final thought: you could leave the stock wiring harness completely intact if you were to pull a new +12v wire, and then just tap into the QD at the window motor. I started out with that idea in mind, but wasn't sure how to wire it such that the door skin could still be removed relatively easily.

Good luck!
 
ps: didn't bother with diodes on the circuit because there is nothing sensitive in the mix. just fyi.

another note: getting the ground wire through the grommet on the door was a PITA. Not a lot of room to work down there.
 
so 2 relays per window switch?
 
just a warning as I thought about this at one point. Putting this circuit on the driver's front window is not such a good idea. The reason is that the master switch relies on the current draw of the motor to determine when to shut off the "auto" function.

Since the draw on that circuit would only be the relay coil it will never change and the switch will stay active indefinitely.
 
just a warning as I thought about this at one point. Putting this circuit on the driver's front window is not such a good idea. The reason is that the master switch relies on the current draw of the motor to determine when to shut off the "auto" function.

Since the draw on that circuit would only be the relay coil it will never change and the switch will stay active indefinitely.

Is it possible to disable the auto function? I'd gladly give that up in favor of windows that actually work in cold weather!
 
yes, two relays per window. Landtank: very good observation regarding the auto-down feature. For the DS window I figured that I would just add a new ground wire to the mix and hope for the best. That window seems to work better than most anyway.

At some point I may add an extra fuse and wires just for the windows... which would probably make all of them work better as well.
 
it is possible: if you were to solder in a resistor I think that it would click off immediately every time you engage the auto down. There might be some other way also.
 
disabling auto down:


I haven't looked at a switch assembly in a long time but to give you "auto up" you needed to clip the actual switch to give it a bigger range of motion.

So the reverse would be true as well. Either swap out the rocker with another one that doesn't have the extra range or glue a piece of plastic, maybe from a CD crystal, under that rocker to limit it's motion.
 
new wrinkle

not sure what is happening-- but when I engage rear windows, I hear the relay in the PS front "click". That doesn't seem right.

Need to open it up and take a look at what is happening. Also all 4 windows aren't working as well as they were a week ago. I suspect that the master switch is being a pain again.

Constant entertainment with these windows.


**edit**: only one of the relays clicks. that happens whenever ground is introduced. "normal" based on the weird master switch wiring by toyota
 
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another update:

so all this window fun ... and I've worn out the brushes on my DS window motor.
and the master switch is, once again, all carboned out.

I've decided to stop trouble shooting the system.

Mr. T: You've let me down. The electric window system from the factory is not appropriate to 20 years in the tropics.

So...

my new plan is to buy 4 of these switches Amazon.com: Power Window Rocker Switch 5 Wire Motor Reversing Control: Automotive
I'll cut out holes in the front and rear of my Tuffy such that I can reach all 4 switches from the driver's seat. 2 will be on the front face of the tuffy, somewhere near the pencil tray. 2 will be on the back face of the tuffy, near the top.

here's the wiring diagram:
419jywW1c9L._SS400_.jpg


Sure, it'll be less easy to reach than in the door. I know. But not so much as to be an issue.

The final install will use 1 decent-sized (10ga?) +12v IGN wire.
That will go to pole #3 on each switch.
#2 and #4 will go to ground (a bolt there in the Tuffy).
#1 and #5 will snake out to the doors under the front seats, then forward along the stock wiring space under the carpet, or up into the B pillar, respectively, then into the doors to the window motors. I plan to run 12ga wire for these runs, I think that's heavy enough. I might just run relays in each door. Maybe. Still deciding. If relays, then I can run all the tuffy wiring with much smaller wiring, without worries. But then I'll need to figure out decent +12v and grounds in the doors. My goal is to leave the stock wiring in place just in case my idea is horrible and I want to convert back some day.

Anyway.... that's it. Simple simple simple. The switches are illuminated, which is a bonus. They won't look stock. I can live with that. Passengers will have to lean forward to operate them, which isn't perfect. I'll have to open the front and rear separately. Ok.

Short-term, I may just do the front and leave the rear switches as-is (just grounding where needed so that they operate). That means I can't control the rear-right at all. I can probably live with that too.

I'm just so darn fed up with the crappy design of the "master" switch that I'll do just about whatever it takes to remove this faulty bit of electronics from my life.

FWIW: if your master switch has died, you can make all of the other switches work again by grounding the pins found at 5, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14 on the master switch. Assuming that the puny ground wire on your master switch is still good after 20 years of being bent in the opening/closing of the driver's door.

I hate to say it, but for once I think that Land Rover did something much better than Toyota. The console-mounted switches just make more sense (to people who live in places with dirt and weather, anyway).
 
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also:
Anyone have a tip for cutting out a "perfect" rectangle in the steel of my Tuffy?

I'm thinking to use a dremel for each side, then a hacksaw blade to finish to the corners.
If there is something easier, I'm interested

oh, also, I'll have to figure out how to re-cover the door handle to get rid of the evidence of the master switch area, and I think I'll try to convert the passenger window switch to make it operate the power door-locks instead.
 
the original instal in the pass side door still works just fine
but I've decided to just get a new switch assembly for the driver's door.

now that I'm not in the tropics, I figure it will last long enough as-is and I'd rather invest the time/energy in other projects.
 
Hi. I'm resurrecting this thread to (1) share my experience when I did this mod; and (2) to get your inputs on the post-install concerns I have.

Background: my JDM80 rig always had very slow windows since I got hold of her (about 2006). Sometimes they get stuck. sometimes they need a lot of manual pushing for them to go up, especially when it rains. I tried everything: lube the window channels, cleaned the switch contacts, etc.

I researched this forum and the best fix is to replace the window rubber channels. But since the channels are quite expensive, it is only about 2 years ago that I was able to buy the channels. I had them installed by an expert 80s shop: they dismantled the whole window mechanism: motors, glass, etc. I was expecting a lot when the new channels were in. But the windows still go up very slow.

The 80s expert said that since my rig is a conversion from RHD to LHD, there is a voltage drop on the wires that go to the motors. And the only solution is to re-wire my rig. Which will cost a fortune and require lots of time. So I said I'll just table this option for now and just live with the problem.

Fast forward to 2 months ago since I really go t fed up with the slow windows. After further research I stumbled on this posting. I then designed my own window motor rewiring solution. I ran 10 gauge cable from the battery to an auxilliary fuse box I mounted on the heater fan under the passenger seat. For each window, I did the 2-relay setup, with both relays powered by a 10amp fuse from the aux fuse box.

I followed the wire schematic outlined in this post. I tapped onto the original switch connections for the trigger wires and connected the relay outputs to the power wires of the . Sorry I did not take pics of the install. But essentially, the motors now take 12V fused power direct from the battery through the relays which get triggered when I pushed up/down on the switch.

Initial Results: I tested the setup on my Rear Left window first. Now my window runs just like a brand-new window! it was very fast considering the age of the motors. Was so happy that I played up/down the window multiple times as I can't believe I did it. Then that's when the first sign of problem came up. The window just died. I traced again my wiring and found out that my 10amp fuse was blown. Double-checked all the wirings / referred to the schematic, but cannot find a probably cause of a short. I replaced the 10amp fuse and the window worked again.

Since the performance was so good, I then replicated the wiring to the other windows. It took me 2 hours to do the 1st window bu took only 1 hour to do the rest as I was getting good at removing the panels, doing the wires, etc. So in one saturday afternoon, I finished all 3 windows. I left the driver side for the next window. All 3 windows worked fine and rang my friend to get his beers cold and we will celebrate.

On the way, I played with all 3 windows - sometimes hitting 2 switches at the same time. Then that's when the problem surfaced again. Some of the windows died. When I reached my buddy's place, I checked and the 10amp fuses are blown again. I put in spares , rolled up the windows and parked the issue for now and will just research the problem the next day.

So I searched online but can't find a definitive answer to how much power does a 80series toyota window motor draw. My take is that it's more than 10amps that's why the fuses blew. So I replaced all 3 fuses with 15amps each, tested the windows and they all worked fine. I had this setup for about 3 weeks and so far, even if play up/down with the windows, the fuses don't blow.

Question No 1: do these motors really pull 15 amps? If not, what caused the 10 amp fuses to blow when there's no short in the circuit. If I have a short due to incorrect wiring, then during testing I would have known.

I replicated the same setup last weekend on the Drivers side - same wiring approach but this time, I used 15 amps. All windows roll-up just like new windows. Was so happy that I now have a cruiser with fast windows for the cost of 8 relays, wires, fuse boxes, and 2 weekend time.

However, another problem came up on the Drivers side: my previously working Auto up/down feature does not work anymore. I have a JDM 80 and auto-up/down I believe is a standard feature. When I pressed on the switch and let it go, the window will just move about 2-3 inches and will stop. Before, the window will automatically go up / down. I can live without this auto-up/down feature as I don't want to go back to the old wiring. Better to have fast windows than slow auto-up windows!

Question No 2: why did my auto-up/down feature got disabled when I implemented the new wiring scheme? Is there a fix for this?

Also, I noticed that the Window Child lock button on the Master switch does not work . I can live again without this feature as my kids are growing up already. But again, if there is a quick fix for this, then better.

Overall, I'm very satisfied with the new windows on my rig, even with the lost of the auto-up/down and master lock features.
 
Bump - any comments?

Question No 1: do these motors really pull 15 amps? If not, what caused the 10 amp fuses to blow when there's no short in the circuit. If I have a short due to incorrect wiring, then during testing I would have known.

Question No 2: why did my auto-up/down feature got disabled when I implemented the new wiring scheme? Is there a fix for this?
 
best fix I had was new rubbers for the drivers window, works great now
gonna order them up for all the windows eventually
 
There are some other threads out there that address this concept, most notably:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/79-95-toyota-truck-tech/213396-power-window-homebrew-fix.html

But I didn't see anything specific to the 80 series so thought I'd include my experience.

I've had problems with slow windows since I bought the 1991 rig in 2007. I've tried breaking down all the switches and cleaning them out (there is a writeup around here somewhere).

Cleaning the contacts seems to have helped, but shortly afterwards I was back to glacial window movement (or none at all).

So when my passenger side window failed in the rain, I had finally had enough and decided to install some relays in an attempt to make it work better.

I'm happy with the results! I think that it could be done even better. When I redo the back windows I'll go the extra mile (see below) but for now, there is improvement.

I'll try to do a sketch for the wiring as well, but in words--- here it goes.

parts:
2 bosch relays
some wire
butt and spade terminals
heat shrink
zip ties
diagonal cut plier
crimping pliers
wire strippers



The wiring is pretty simple:
In stock form, the current arrives through a blue/black wire to the switch. there are 4 wires that leave the switch-- 1 black, 1 red, and two others. The others I left alone.

I cut the black and the red and the blue/black each about an inch away from the switch. I ran a jumper from the blue/black (+12v) to the blue black wire on the switch.

I also ran a 12ga wire from a bolt on the dash (ground) through the door grommet, to the relays.

I then wired up the two relays as follows:

Relay 1:
30: Connects to the black wire that goes to window motor
87a (nc): To Ground wire
87 (no): +12 v from black/blue wire
86: to ground wire
85: black wire that goes to switch

Relay 2:
30: connects to red wire that goes to window motor
87a (nc): To ground wire
87 (no): +12 v from black/blue wire
86: to ground wire
85: to red wire that goes to switch


it's that simple. I did use jumpers to connect the wires to the relays so that things weren't so very tight in there.

Now, when the switch is activated, it trips the relay and current flows through the motor and to ground through the new, shorter, fatter ground wire.

When the master switch is activated, it completes a ground circuit which also activates the relay(s) to move the window. The primary difference is that now the current that flows through the motor has a short distance in big wire to go to ground, whereas it used to go all the way to the driver's door and pass through the switch there, which causes arcing and pitting and eventually failure.

The only current traveling through the master switch is the current to switch the relay(s)- a very small amount.


Here's my super-uber-wow its bad Paint version:
windowrelay.jpg


the important details are that you connect pole 30 to the motor wires, and pole 87 to the +12v. Don't do it the other way around or you'll have a short.

A *better* way to do this would be to pull a 'new' wire with +12v from a fuse on the battery. That would give a lot more juice to the window motor, and would allow you to leave the blue/black wire untouched. I did notice that the blue/black wire has a voltage drop of about 0.2 volts (battery shows 12.5, wire to battery shows 12.3 ) it isn't a big drop, but it could make a small difference.

The relays fit in the arm rest, pretty easily. I used 4" pigtails to make connections, if I had used 8" of wire instead, it would have been a little easier to cram stuff in. Better still would be to use relay sockets, but I didn't have 'em handy. I'll use them in the back seat controls if I get around to fixing those any time soon.

This was really easy- took maybe 2 hours, including the time I wasted "inventing" the circuit and testing it out. I could probably do it again in less than an hour.

Final thought: you could leave the stock wiring harness completely intact if you were to pull a new +12v wire, and then just tap into the QD at the window motor. I started out with that idea in mind, but wasn't sure how to wire it such that the door skin could still be removed relatively easily.

Good luck!
Sand cruiser, I just followed your instructions for the fix of the power windows. I might be wrong, but I think the written description of the connections and the drawing don't coincide. Whereas in the written description Terminals 87a and 86 go to ground, in your drawing it is 87a and 85. I was following the written description and wired 87a and 86 to ground and 85 to the black and red wire of the switch. When I had everything connected I tried the switch and nothing happened, in respect to the window... However, there was quite a bit of smoke coming out of the dashboard. I connected everything back to the way it was but unfortunately none of the windows can be moved anymore. Have to open the dashboard tomorrow to see what the damage is...
 
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