60 addict with an 80 question

[GLTHFJ60]

I'm a 60 guy, but I'm trying to get my buddy todd into cruisers and if he's gonna do it, he's going to do it in an 80. Long story short, Todd and I went today to go see Brian's 94 FZJ80 that's for sale. It's SUPER clean and only has 120k on it, but there is one thing of concern. We took it out to a big parking lot to test out the front axle turning radius in High and in Low, and it performed well in High, but in low it made a notable clunking / clicking noise that was definitely emanating from the front axle. It would start doing it when turning the wheel to the left or right at about 45 degrees turned. The CDL was locked, as indicated by the dash light, but I'm not sure as to why it did this. I know that when the CDL is locked, the front and rear driveshafts are spinning at the same speed, but when my 60 is in low, it should emulate the 80 being in low with the CDL locked and the tires just scrub. Brian rebuilt the knuckles and the exterior of the birfs are clean, but I'm wondering what this noise could be.... Birfs that need to be taken apart and rebuilt? Front diff problems? Bearings worn?

I did search, and I know that this is a pretty noobish question, but please don't flame me too bad.

Anyone have experience here?

Once again, very clean rig brian!! Thanks for showing it to us today.

 

[IronYuppy]

Off the top o' my head I'd bet your 60 has lockable hubs?

 

[rmcmanus8a]

My 97 spent some time under water and started doing the same thing. I put more grease in the knuckles and have not heard anything in 10K miles. I was afraid I broke a birf, but I guess I did'nt. Anyway, I am not an expert, but it fixed mine. Hope this helps.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Off the top o' my head I'd bet your 60 has lockable hubs?

Absolutely!! The hubs were locked in the scenario I set up.

My 97 spent some time under water and started doing the same thing. I put more grease in the knuckles and have not heard anything in 10K miles. I was afraid I broke a birf, but I guess I did'nt. Anyway, I am not an expert, but it fixed mine. Hope this helps.

Which part of the knuckle did you put more grease in? The outer part when the birf is inside or the inner part when the birf is out?

 

[Hilux]

NO!!!

You locked its CENTER DIFF in LOW. Try doing dough nuts in a PT 4WD rig. Would that have the same effect?



they'll chirp or bind depending on the surface. What was the surface you were on in your 60? Was it the SAME as your experience in the 80?


IH8 when people test a 4WD this way "in a parking lot". You are also putting max pressure on your joints doing this.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

NO!!!

You locked its CENTER DIFF in LOW. Try doing dough nuts in a PT 4WD rig. Would that have the same effect?

off the top of my head.......................

Right, but with the CDL engaged in low, that should emulate my 60 in 4wd low with the hubs locked, right??

 

[landtank]

other than trying to brake something, why in the world would you put the truck in lo range with the center diff locked and do donuts on pavement?

 

[rmcmanus8a]

I remove a square headed plug on top of the knuckle and filled it with grease. I had an 84 pickup that was the same and I maintained it the same way too. Like I said I am no expert, but it worked for me. Of course you need to use a compatable grease. At 100K I rebuilt my knuckles and I am at 177K now.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

other than trying to brake something, why in the world would you put the truck in lo range with the center diff locked and do donuts?

I wasn't doing donuts!! I was driving slowly in tight circles to see if any noises were made. Was this not a logical test?!?

Should an 80 never be driven with the CDL engaged in low through turns on dry pavement?

I remove a square headed plug on top of the knuckle and filled it with grease. I had an 84 pickup that was the same and I maintained it the same way too. Like I said I am no expert, but it worked for me. Of course you need to use a compatable grease. At 100K I rebuilt my knuckles and I am at 177K now.

That's the type of advice I was looking for, thank you. Anyone else?

 

[Hilux]

Right, but with the CDL engaged in low, that should emulate my 60 in 4wd low with the hubs locked, right??

Sorry man, I was editing the life out of it.

This is my response to that.

they'll chirp or bind depending on the surface. What was the surface you were on in your 60? Was it the SAME as your experience in the 80?

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Sorry man, I was editing the life out of it.

This is my response to that.

they'll chirp or bind depending on the surface. What was the surface you were on in your 60? Was it the SAME as your experience in the 80?

The same exact conditions. 50 degree weather, pavement in the sun, no debris on the pavement. I would have expected the tires to chirp if everything is in working order, just as my 60 did. That expectation might have been unfounded, which is why I was posting this thread. I figured that under max pressure, it would bring out any problems with the rig without causing any damage. I've done it with both 60s I have had, and I didn't expect an 80 to be any different.

Thanks for all your replies guys, keep posting!!!

 

[Hilux]

I wasn't doing donuts!! I was driving slowly in tight circles

to see if any noises were made. Was this not a logical test?!?

Should an 80 never be driven with the CDL engaged in low through turns on dry pavement

NO, NEVER, NOT IN ANY 4WD.

AWD yes, 4WD No, never.


Not logical to me, but then that opens up how do you?


there is a way, that's just not it.

 

[landtank]

I wasn't doing donuts!! I was driving slowly in tight circles to see if any noises were made. Was this not a logical test?!?

Should an 80 never be driven with the CDL engaged in low through turns on dry pavement?



That's the type of advice I was looking for, thank you. Anyone else?

center locked in lo range is for lo traction situations. If you want to test the system pull off onto a dirt road. This goes for any 4X4 system. On pavement you are going to get a serious amount of binding and with the heavier 80 and more powerful 1FZ-FE you could easily damage something. Tire scrub is going to come easier on the 60 than an 80 because of it's weight. Also the 80 is full time 4WD and there is probably more wear on the birfs because of this than your PT 4X4. Doing tight circles locked on pavement in an 80 and hearing it complain is par for the course.

 

[Hilux]

The same exact conditions. 50 degree weather, pavement in the sun, no debris on the pavement. I would have expected the tires to chirp if everything is in working order, just as my 60 did. That expectation might have been unfounded, which is why I was posting this thread. I figured that under max pressure, it would bring out any problems with the rig without causing any damage. I've done it with both 60s I have had, and I didn't expect an 80 to be any different.

Thanks for all your replies guys, keep posting!!!

Your method of testing leaves you just short of breaking something. Your mentality is adding stress it to see if it'll hold?

I'd abandon that method if I were you, before it cost's you.

What if you did damage not indicated there, but easily next time you were in an emergency situation? "Wish I didn't stress the system no more than i had to when I had the chance now"

center locked in lo range is for lo traction situations. If you want to test the system pull off onto a dirt road. This goes for any 4X4 system. On pavement you are going to get a serious amount of binding and with the heavier 80 and more powerful 1FZ-FE you could easily damage something. Tire scrub is going to come easier on the 60 than an 80 because of it's weight. Also the 80 is full time 4WD and there is probably more wear on the birfs because of this than your PT 4X4. Doing tight circles locked on pavement in an 80 and hearing it complain is par for the course.

X2, also it being in low, the power to the joints in their not so strong state was what?...doubled?...tripled?....then ad resistance?....WOW!

 

[anderaa13]

I agree with the other guys, I wouldn't do that in my truck.

But, for what its worth my birfields click on the trail when I go around tight turns with the cdl locked. It's pretty loud but its done it for years. On the street I only hear clicking when I turn it tight and nail it from a stop.

I'd bet your hearing the birfs which would indicate some wear. If the truck only has 120k I wouldn't worry about it. Next time a birf job is needed he could swap sides.

aaron

 

[GLTHFJ60]

NO, NEVER, NOT IN ANY 4WD.

AWD yes, 4WD No, never.

Not logical to me, but then that opens up how do you?

there is a way, that's just not it.

Your method of testing leaves you just short of breaking something. Your mentality is adding stress it to see if it'll hold?

I'd abandon that method if I were you, before it cost's you.

What if you did damage not indicated there, but easily next time you were in an emergency situation? "Wish I didn't stress the system no more than i had to when I had the chance now"

X2, also it being in low, the power to the joints in their not so strong state was what?...doubled?...tripled?....then ad resistance?....WOW!

Well, thanks for the flaming, I guess I deserved it. My logic that under higher stress, problems that wouldn't appear to exist under normal driving would become evident and would therefore affect the opinion on the purchase, but as you've suggested, that's dead wrong. Worked for my 60, not for the 80 but shouldn't do it in either rig. I'll take a note of that.

Stock low range gearing for an 80 is 2.3, right? Doubled then.

I agree with the other guys, I wouldn't do that in my truck.

But, for what its worth my birfields click on the trail when I go around tight turns with the cdl locked. It's pretty loud but its done it for years. On the street I only hear clicking when I turn it tight and nail it from a stop.

I'd bet your hearing the birfs which would indicate some wear. If the truck only has 120k I wouldn't worry about it. Next time a birf job is needed he could swap sides.

aaron

Knowing that your rig has done it for years is definitely comforting.

center locked in lo range is for lo traction situations. If you want to test the system pull off onto a dirt road. This goes for any 4X4 system. On pavement you are going to get a serious amount of binding and with the heavier 80 and more powerful 1FZ-FE you could easily damage something. Tire scrub is going to come easier on the 60 than an 80 because of it's weight. Also the 80 is full time 4WD and there is probably more wear on the birfs because of this than your PT 4X4. Doing tight circles locked on pavement in an 80 and hearing it complain is par for the course.

Dirt it is. Thanks for the advice. Makes sense as the 80 weighs more, has a more powerful motor and has wider tires making traction quite a bit better. Next time I go test a rig, I'll do as you guys suggest.

 

[Hilux]

Well, thanks for the flaming, I guess I deserved it. My logic that under higher stress, problems that wouldn't appear to exist under normal driving would become evident and would therefore affect the opinion on the purchase, but as you've suggested, that's dead wrong. Worked for my 60, not for the 80. I'll take a note of that.

1: Don't take it that way, ya gotta learn somehow. NO FLAME FOR YOU!

And 2; Change your logic.


This does beg the "how does one test" question though.

But I think road is enough. Believe me, theres enough force at work on the highway to know if its O.K and will hold.


PT TC's

Front diff check is, TC H2, you turn the shaft by hand, and check each shaft by locking one hub at a time (1 side at a time) and both.

TC check on a PT is, unlock hubs and engage 4WD, then try to turn the shaft.

80? IDK, but driving it I believe is enough. CDL never locked on hard surface.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

1: Don't take it that way, ya gotta learn somehow. NO FLAME FOR YOU!

And 2; Change your logic.

This does beg the "how does one test" question though.

But I think road is enough. Believe me, theres enough force at work on the highway to know if its O.K and will hold.


PT TC's

Front diff check is, TC H2, you turn the shaft by hand, and check each shaft by locking one hub at a time (1 side at a time) and both.

TC check on a PT is, unlock hubs and engage 4WD, then try to turn the shaft.

80? IDK, but driving it I believe is enough. CDL never locked on hard surface.

I didn't mean to say that I didn't appreciate your advice. I definitely do. Like I said, I'm new to 80s and I gotta change my testing methods for both 60s and 80s.

Once again, thanks for your advice!

 

[Izeloz]

CDL never locked on a hard surface? What about on slickrock in Moab? Is that a no no? I'm asking because I am really curious. I did the 7-pin mod in mine so I can enable or disable the CDL in hi or lo or wherever I want whenever I want.

 

[IdahoDoug]

Holy moly, some really edgy advice here that is bordering on wrong. Yes, you can drive your 80 in low range all day long in low range on grippy pavement. It is designed for that kind of abuse, it is not a pollyanna SUV. As noted that is what you would be doing all day and all week on a trip to Moab where it is essentially grippy as pavement and far more stress since sometimes the fronts have up to 85% of the vehicle's weight on them while you're turning (vs less on a flat parking lot). This front end was also designed for a locker, which adds orders of magnitude more stress on the birf.

Obviously if something's going to break, this is putting stress on the system that is designed to take it but wear of a decade and a half obviously changes things in an unknown way.

The sound you are hearing is the balls in the birfield snapping across a groove worn into the inner and outer birfield cage/star. If there's proper grease in there, it will do this for years. If it has been worn too much then no amount of grease will prevent a failure if you have larger tires or lockers on the front. Personally I would not sweat it if there are any records of axle maintenance.

Grumble, grumble....

DougM