MUDRAK NP203 with stock Tranny/Transfer

[DavidAW]

Hi

I'm trying to get my head around this and hope someone has 1st hand knowledge.

I have a chance to get mudraks adapters already installed on a 203. Owner never installed.
MCC - Mudrak Custom Cruiser - FJ60 Doubler

He is offering the adapters + 203 alone, or already paired with a pre-85 tranny and split case. My rig is June 85 with the tranny spacer.

Heres where I'm stuck. (keep in mind that this is all new to me and I may be way off on my assumptions)

1. Seller thought that the adapter is different on for the pre-85 h42 vs the 85 above with the spacer. I called Gary at Mudrak and this does not seem to be the case. But I will require a new set of bolts. Just want to verify that the kit is the same

2. I found out from the seller that you have to hack part of your tranny output shaft to fit. Can't find any docs on the kit at all but did see other posts with similar info.
Does this apply equally to the tranny with/without spacer.

3. Seller has already cut his tranny output and the tranny/203/split case can be had as a unit for a bit more $$ but may provide an easier install. Is there any issue with going to the no spacer tranny, ie cross member? Other issues with a full swap?

4. Seller also has the cut shaft availble, is it easy to swap this into my tranny to avoid the butcher job on mine?


I was hoping this would be a semi simple mod since I would keep my tranny and transfer and I already have DS mods coming for an SOA project. I know an additional X-member and linkages are in store.

In addition to the above, am I missing anything?


Thanks and sorry for the long post

Dave

 

[chicago]

Mudrack is gonna be the man for this info. Id call him on these questions and find out exactly what is required.
I did the 203- split case with a 4L60E. THAT I DID need to have the output shaft replaced.
The splines on the input of the 203 are pretty shallow...about 1.5 - 2 in deep, so a short shaft with full spline engagement is the issue. This is what I ASSUME the seller is talking about re. the matter.
Sorry I cant help more, but it should be a NICE set up!
I cant wait to try mine!

 

[inkpot]

Howdy! Going with the earlier transmission will reduce some of the added length created by the addition of the 203. Probably still gunna need custom cut drive shafts. John

 

[orangefj45]

1) mudrak sells the adapter but he did not design it. there are only 4 dealers for this adapter even though it's made by AA ( under contract for terry, who came up with it ).

2) it will work with either trans.

3) you will have to cut the main shaft on either trans.

4) it's easier to cut the main shaft in a complete trans than to switch them out.

5) i'd run the short trans as well. shorter overall geartrain.

hth

georg @ valley hybrids

 

[Mace]

1. Seller thought that the adapter is different on for the pre-85 h42 vs the 85 above with the spacer. I called Gary at Mudrak and this does not seem to be the case. But I will require a new set of bolts. Just want to verify that the kit is the same

As said before, the adapter is the same.

2. I found out from the seller that you have to hack part of your tranny output shaft to fit. Can't find any docs on the kit at all but did see other posts with similar info.
Does this apply equally to the tranny with/without spacer.

Absolutely, the length of the output shaft that sticks out of hte case on the spacer tranny and the earlier tranny are identical.

3. Seller has already cut his tranny output and the tranny/203/split case can be had as a unit for a bit more $$ but may provide an easier install. Is there any issue with going to the no spacer tranny, ie cross member? Other issues with a full swap?

No reason not to. The tranny's are the same (gear ratio wise). And as has already been said, the shorter tranny will benefit you with driveshaft lengths..

4. Seller also has the cut shaft availble, is it easy to swap this into my tranny to avoid the butcher job on mine?

The output shaft on the non spacer tranny will be a different length than the output shaft in the spacer tranny.

I was hoping this would be a semi simple mod since I would keep my tranny and transfer and I already have DS mods coming for an SOA project. I know an additional X-member and linkages are in store.

In addition to the above, am I missing anything?


Thanks and sorry for the long post

Dave

Not simple, but nothing complex. And is a really good mod.

 

[DavidAW]

Thanks everyone for the very detailed answers.

Seems that the easiest and best method is to get the short tranny and 203 thats already mated (along with the transfer case).

Would this all go in together with everything bolted together, on a transmission jack?
I assume the stock trans mounts should hold everything up while I make a 2nd mount.

Thanks again
Dave

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Seems like the 203 is only 2:1 in low range. How much do the adapters, 203 and special 203 output shaft cost alltogether? Is that much less than the Toybox?

The Toybox comes in 4.7:1.

 

[DavidAW]

Not sure. I heard about a grand. I'm guessing they make them to order. Shaft is in the kit as I understand it. 203s are el-cheapo.

I wish you didnt have to cut the tranny output. No way back.
I wonder if you had to cut it for the toybox?


Isnt the toybox still permanently unavailable? I see posts going back a few years waiting form them. I remember the 1st time I looked they were a million $.

Dave

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Isnt the toybox still permanently unavailable? I see posts going back a few years waiting form them. I remember the 1st time I looked they were a million $.

Dave

Call Marlin Crawler and speak to Brandon. Last I heard they had them available but only to run with a split case. It's a really good mod.

To answer your question about the transmission shafts, assuming you run an H42, you swap thetransmission's output shaft to 10 spline to work with the toybox. The version for the H55 uses a different input gear and you do need to chop off most of the output shaft to work with the Toyobox.

The 203 is also a good mod and I know a bunch of guys that run them and like them. I have one in the Garage waiting for a project and it is one heavy piece of iron. It's a x 1.99 ratio while the toybox is x 4.7.

How about a set of the 4:1 T case gears that Georg was working on with AA?

 

[DavidAW]

Call Marlin Crawler and speak to Brandon. Last I heard they had them available but only to run with a split case. It's a really good mod.

To answer your question about the transmission shafts, assuming you run an H42, you swap thetransmission's output shaft to 10 spline to work with the toybox. The version for the H55 uses a different input gear and you do need to chop off most of the output shaft to work with the Toyobox.

The 203 is also a good mod and I know a bunch of guys that run them and like them. I have one in the Garage waiting for a project and it is one heavy piece of iron. It's a x 1.99 ratio while the toybox is x 4.7.

How about a set of the 4:1 T case gears that Georg was working on with AA?

Well thats good to know on the toybox. I will give them a call just to see.
But if its > $1500 its out of my range. Plus I dont think I would undertake the output shaft swap. Looks knda tough.

I dont want the LOW gears, I really end up in 4 low 1st/ 2nd gear most of the time, so dont want to lose that.

Thanks for everyones input. I'm learning a lot.

Heres a link to the toybox install. I couldnt find it on the Marlin site. Its for a 40 but has the shaft swap.
Marlin Crawler ToyBox Install Instructions

 

[Heckraiser]

How about a set of the 4:1 T case gears that Georg was working on with AA?

With a np203 costing $100 on craigslist, and the 203-to-toyota case adapter costing $460, as long as the h42-to-203 adapter costs less than $800 the 203/split case setup is still cheaper than the AA 4:1 gear set. Probably easier to assemble for the average shade tree mechanic, and more gear choices to boot. The 4:1 gears are just too darn expensive.

How much does the mudrak H42/203 adapter cost, anyway?

 

[DavidAW]

With a np203 costing $100 on craigslist, and the 203-to-toyota case adapter costing $460, as long as the h42-to-203 adapter costs less than $800 the 203/split case setup is still cheaper than the AA 4:1 gear set. Probably easier to assemble for the average shade tree mechanic, and more gear choices to boot. The 4:1 gears are just too darn expensive.

How much does the mudrak H42/203 adapter cost, anyway?

Not sure of the price. I'm looking at a used setup.
But from the hits I've found, the 2 adapters and the new shaft for the 203 to Split was in the 1000$- 1100$ range.
Again, dont know 1st hand.

I think if they had the specs, price, and install notes online that they could sell a few.

Dave

 

[chicago]

I got my 203/ split adapter from Colorado off road express, and it was about 500 bones. Got the 203 for 75 and the split case for 150.
I definitely wanted low and mid range Selectability and not just a stupid low gear. For that, it should be very nice.

 

[DavidAW]

I got my 203/ split adapter from Colorado off road express, and it was about 500 bones. Got the 203 for 75 and the split case for 150.
I definitely wanted low and mid range Selectability and not just a stupid low gear. For that, it should be very nice.

Was that $500 with the 19 spline output shaft for the 203?

 

[Mace]

Was that $500 with the 19 spline output shaft for the 203?

yes..

 

[DavidAW]

yes..

Thanks

OK so we are in the $1000 range plus a cheap 203. You just need to circumcise your tranny output.*

So 1 more question.
Is there anything changed on the split case?
Or is does it just bolt on?

* I cant imagine the google searches this will match*

Thanks
Dave

 

[Cruiserdrew]

I dont want the LOW gears, I really end up in 4 low 1st/ 2nd gear most of the time, so dont want to lose that.

I guess I'm confused. If you don't want the low gears, why do you need to do anything?

Normally you run the reduction box to get lower gears, and splitting your existing gears is a side benefit.

The really deep gearing is very useful for maybe 5% of any given trail. The rest of the time, the stock low is adequate.

I see you are from Virginia Beach, which is where I grew up. Where do you get to go that requires a doubler box? We used to do some power line 4 wheeling out by Farmville, and drive on the beach to the outerbanks, but neither place needed much gearing. You might be ok with what you have.

Anyway, no matter what you do, it isn't going to be cheap. That's the nature of low gearing, unfortunately.

Looking forward to see what you end up doing.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Thanks

OK so we are in the $1000 range plus a cheap 203. You just need to circumcise your tranny output.*

So 1 more question.
Is there anything changed on the split case?
Or is does it just bolt on?

* I cant imagine the google searches this will match*

Thanks
Dave

The split case comes apart into the two halves, and then is built onto the back of the 203 adapter. It's the same process with a Toybox. The gears inside all stay the same but you generally will want a rebuild kit so you can replace the bearings/seals/gaskets while you are in there. In any case, you need at least the new gaskets.

203s come in several bolt patterns, and you need to see which one you need to match up with the adapter you plan to use. I believe the most common is the Chevy figure 8 pattern, which is what I have. There are also circular patterns, and differing Ford and Chevy circular patterns. So before you grab the first one you see, make sure it's the right one, or be prepared to drill the one you get to the pattern you need.

 

[Mace]

I have never seen a chevy circular input pattern 203, only ferd ones

Also, ford ones do not work with the adapter we are discussing.

BUT, you can redrill a chevy 203 to the round pattern.

 

[DavidAW]

I guess I'm confused. If you don't want the low gears, why do you need to do anything?

.

I just meant that I dont want to go with the 2 options for changing the stock transfer to low gears, Marks and AA as I understand it.
I would want a selectable option if anything.

...see you are from Virginia Beach, which is where I grew up. Where do you get to go that requires a doubler box? We used to do some power line 4 wheeling out by Farmville, and drive on the beach to the outerbanks, but neither place needed much gearing..
.

I am a member at RCPFA in Crozet Va. It a small rock park. I usually find that I have to use speed/bumping to get over a lot of stuff. Theres also some rock action in Uwharrie down in NC

Thanks for the info.
Dave