Diesel oil observation.

[Benjaman]

So I've been using Delo 400 15/40 in my rigs for about 10 years.

Last year when I bought my 62, I did the same. A little while back, while at the auto parts store, I noticed that the Mobil version of the delo was on sale @$9.99 per gallon. I bought a couple of gallons and did an oil change.

With the delo, the rig would burn a quart in 2k~2.5k miles(mostly in town driving)

With the Mobil Delvac 1300 super, the rig does not burn a drop! It's been 1200 miles on the Mobil 15/40 and the oil is at the same level as when I changed it.



Mobil USA | Heavy-Duty Engine Oils | Mobil Delvac 1300 Super

 

[Spike Strip]

Both are very good oils for modern engines, but frankly, I wouldn't run either one in your flat-tappet motor. Anything SM or CJ-4 rated just does not have the high-pressure, anti-wear additives for your older engine. They did, up 'till 2007 or so, but not now.

Just my .02 and I don't want to start an oil war here, just sayin'. So no one return flame, ok?

Why you've stopped burning oil with the delvac, I dunno. Both are LE formulations, and are pretty similar oils, but maybe the Delo viscosity does not hold up as well ... ?

 

[Benjaman]

Both are very good oils for modern engines, but frankly, I wouldn't run either one in your flat-tappet motor. Anything SM or CJ-4 rated just does not have the high-pressure, anti-wear additives for your older engine. They did, up 'till 2007 or so, but not now.

Just my .02 and I don't want to start an oil war here, just sayin'. So no one return flame, ok?

Why you've stopped burning oil with the delvac, I dunno. Both are LE formulations, and are pretty similar oils, but maybe the Delo viscosity does not hold up as well ... ?

Why would the pressure be higher on these engines, as opposed to my old 22R?

The 22r had metal to metal contact, as in no hydraulics. Most over head cam engines are metal to metal contact, and with much higher valve spring rates then the 2f/3f family.

Where did you get the idea our engines are harder on oil? I for one, dont see it.

 

[Spike Strip]

Like I said, I don't really want to get into it - run whatever you like.

But if you want to read up on it:

Preventing Flat Tappet Camshaft Failure - Proper Oil Selection - Hot Rod Magazine

Page Title

Engine Lubricants - Solving The Flat-Tappet Puzzle - Circle Track Magazine

phscollectorcarworld: New Engine Oils for Flat Tappet Cam Cars!

 

[baldredhead]

Both are very good oils for modern engines, but frankly, I wouldn't run either one in your flat-tappet motor. Anything SM or CJ-4 rated just does not have the high-pressure, anti-wear additives for your older engine. They did, up 'till 2007 or so, but not now.

Just my .02 and I don't want to start an oil war here, just sayin'. So no one return flame, ok?

Why you've stopped burning oil with the delvac, I dunno. Both are LE formulations, and are pretty similar oils, but maybe the Delo viscosity does not hold up as well ... ?

What do you run?

 

[Benjaman]

Like I said, I don't really want to get into it - run whatever you like.

But if you want to read up on it:

Preventing Flat Tappet Camshaft Failure - Proper Oil Selection - Hot Rod Magazine

Page Title

Engine Lubricants - Solving The Flat-Tappet Puzzle - Circle Track Magazine

phscollectorcarworld: New Engine Oils for Flat Tappet Cam Cars!

Posting on a thread, then writing, please dont reply, is unrealistic.

I've not read that link, but it being from HotRod mag, would lead me to believe it applies to high performance engines. But I'll take a look anyway.

 

[Benjaman]

Ok, I read the first article and I dont find a link to our made in Japan engines.

They seem to apply to higher performance and domestic engines.

I worked in a motorcycle repair shop for many years, in my time there I learned that the japanese had done there homework on surface hardness.

I'd never found this on domestic engines of that time(70~80). I figured that was why the japanese engine lasted 2 or 3 times longer then domestic.

I really don't feel the later diesel oils will kill our cams. If you have any evidence of cam failures because of low zinc oils? I'd like to read up on that.


Thanks.

Like I said, I don't really want to get into it - run whatever you like.

But if you want to read up on it:

Preventing Flat Tappet Camshaft Failure - Proper Oil Selection - Hot Rod Magazine

Page Title

Engine Lubricants - Solving The Flat-Tappet Puzzle - Circle Track Magazine

phscollectorcarworld: New Engine Oils for Flat Tappet Cam Cars!

 

[ntsqd]

I highly doubt that an OHC engine has more valve spring pressure than a cam in block design - either on the seat or over the nose. The reason being that cam in block designs have more moving mass that the spring has to control than does the spring in an OHC design. One of the major emphasis' in building a high reving cam in block engine (say a 9-10k rpm SBC) is reducing the valve train components weight so that the spring doesn't have to be so extremely stiff.

 

[TobyB]

zddp.

bt,dt.

sucked.

t

 

[Spike Strip]

What do you run?

Castrol GTX Diesel 15w40.

'cuz it's the only thing that's still SL, CI-4 + rated (pre '07), and readily available at autozone. $4.50 qt. There are other oils, synthetics or boutique oils available that meet those specs, but a higher cost. I like to change the 2F oil frequently. In my Diesel Golf, I leave the Mobil 1 TDT stuff in a year.

Used to Run Rotella T 15w40 in the 2Fs until they changed the formulation to meet current Low Emission standards.

 

[Benjaman]

I highly doubt that an OHC engine has more valve spring pressure than a cam in block design - either on the seat or over the nose. The reason being that cam in block designs have more moving mass that the spring has to control than does the spring in an OHC design. One of the major emphasis' in building a high reving cam in block engine (say a 9-10k rpm SBC) is reducing the valve train components weight so that the spring doesn't have to be so extremely stiff.

Not true. The higher the RPM the higher the spring weight needed, to prevent valve float. But they will move to lighter metals, as in Ti.

I'm not sure if OHV or OHC make as much as a difference, as the length of the rocker arm. Seem like the rockers on a OHC engine are often shorter because theres less room with the cam up there.


Anyway! the Delvac 1300 Super seems to work better in my engine.

 

[RockDoc]

Along the same vein, I run Caterpillar Diesel Engine Oil since it is still CI-4 rated.

 

[Spike Strip]

Yup, CAT oils are super, just hard for me to get down here in the Smog Bowl.

 

[ntsqd]

Not true. The higher the RPM the higher the spring weight needed, to prevent valve float. But they will move to lighter metals, as in Ti..

I didn''t say that they don't still need to use a stiffer valve spring. I said that higher valve train weight requires even MORE spring rate. Why do you think that they go to exotic metals when the various steel alloys are more than strong enough? To reduce weight!!

I'm not sure if OHV or OHC make as much as a difference, as the length of the rocker arm. Seem like the rockers on a OHC engine are often shorter because theres less room with the cam up there..

You're forgetting that while both may or may not have rockers (not all OHC engines do), only the cam in block engine also has a lifter that moves with the cam, and a push rod that does so too. Part of the reason that an OHC engine revs more freely is due to not having that valve train mass moving around. It also adds a tiny bit of HP since it isn't consumed internally with moving that weight around and the attendant friction from those parts.

It is that stiffer valve spring that increases the pressure at the cam lobe to lifter interface. A cam in block design, by design, is going to put more load on the oil than an OHC design at that cam lobe. Going to a roller follower would be a huge bonus, but may not be the easiest thing to pull off in a 2F. There is a thread on that topic.

Sounds to me like as things progress the oil used in any flat tappet cam in block engine will have to become more specialized just to keep the cam alive. Eventually we won't be able to get the CI 4 rated oils of the shelf at the local discount auto parts store. We'll have to be using one of the racing oils or something similar.

 

[baldredhead]

$4.50 qt.

ouchie. that's getting into the same territory as the [strike]water[/strike] oil that goes in the audi.

 

[Benjaman]

In reading the labels on most(if not all)of the Diesel 15/40 oils, they say CI-4.

So are you saying CI-4 only? as in if it reads CI-4/CI-4Plus, it's not as good?

Was the Plus for CAT's? meaning less Zinc?

Mobil does make a MX version that's a non Plus version. But it looks like it would be hard to find.

And I think I mis read your meaning in weight and weight(heavy and/or stiff)

I didn''t say that they don't still need to use a stiffer valve spring. I said that higher valve train weight requires even MORE spring rate. Why do you think that they go to exotic metals when the various steel alloys are more than strong enough? To reduce weight!!

You're forgetting that while both may or may not have rockers (not all OHC engines do), only the cam in block engine also has a lifter that moves with the cam, and a push rod that does so too. Part of the reason that an OHC engine revs more freely is due to not having that valve train mass moving around. It also adds a tiny bit of HP since it isn't consumed internally with moving that weight around and the attendant friction from those parts.

It is that stiffer valve spring that increases the pressure at the cam lobe to lifter interface. A cam in block design, by design, is going to put more load on the oil than an OHC design at that cam lobe. Going to a roller follower would be a huge bonus, but may not be the easiest thing to pull off in a 2F. There is a thread on that topic.

Sounds to me like as things progress the oil used in any flat tappet cam in block engine will have to become more specialized just to keep the cam alive. Eventually we won't be able to get the CI 4 rated oils of the shelf at the local discount auto parts store. We'll have to be using one of the racing oils or something similar.

 

[lehiguy]

In reading the labels on most(if not all)of the Diesel 15/40 oils, they say CI-4.

So are you saying CI-4 only? as in if it reads CI-4/CI-4Plus, it's not as good?

Was the Plus for CAT's? meaning less Zinc?

Mobil does make a MX version that's a non Plus version. But it looks like it would be hard to find.

And I think I mis read your meaning in weight and weight(heavy and/or stiff)

What he is saying is that on a 2F for example, the valve spring no only has to get the valve closed, it has to make all the other stuff return to thier proper position as well, such as the rather large lifters and the pushrods in this case, so these springs are stiffer thant they would have to be with an identical cam riding directly on the valve or even in a configuration like the 22R where thare are no lifters and no push rods that have to be moved back and forth by the valve spring. Even so, these springs are not very stiff at all since the cam is so mild and the RPM capability of the motor is relatively low, mostly because of the reciprocating mass and the long stroke.

 

[Mace]

I've used Valvoline VR-1 20-50 with good success while breaking in a new motor.

 

[dbleon]

Fact of the matter: these rigs were deasigned and built to run on the worst fluids. The type that might only be availiable in third world countries. I say any oil off the shelf will do the trick. The oils mentioned in this thread are, in comparison, top notch. JMHO.

 

[Mace]

It's more important when you are breaking in a new camshaft to the lifters. After that, lobe wear is greatly reduced..