wheel spacer advice

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darroncollins

darroncollins

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Apr 13, 2009
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Bought some nice but old 32by11.5by15 BFGs with wheels. Front wheels rubbed against the tie-rod ends. I'm ready to replace the TREs but before doing so need to bump the wheels out by just 1/8-1/4 inch to avoid the rub.

Any advice on where to pick 6-lug 1/4th inch wheel spacers up -- eg, any auto/wheel store or am I best to go online? Is there any problem moving the front out 1/4 inch on both side and leaving the rear as is or do I need to do all four wheels?
Darron
 
Since I have been down this road, I will tell you what I had to do. The stock wheel studs are not very long and if you take away 1/4" or 3/8" with a spacer, you won't have much left to thread onto. You will need some shouldered lug nuts, they pass through the holes in the wheel with a threaded tube-like portion. I had to drill the wheels slightly larger, I think they were 9/16" and I drilled them to 5/8". I drilled them all including the spare so that I could rotate them. I would have had to drill them anyway to fit the larger studs on he GM rear axle I now have. The other solution is try to find longer wheel studs for the front that will fit the existing hub. I tried once and failed, but I didn't try very hard. Good luck.
 
lehiguy said:
Since I have been down this road, I will tell you what I had to do. The stock wheel studs are not very long and if you take away 1/4" or 3/8" with a spacer, you won't have much left to thread onto. You will need some shouldered lug nuts, they pass through the holes in the wheel with a threaded tube-like portion. I had to drill the wheels slightly larger, I think they were 9/16" and I drilled them to 5/8". I drilled them all including the spare so that I could rotate them. I would have had to drill them anyway to fit the larger studs on he GM rear axle I now have. The other solution is try to find longer wheel studs for the front that will fit the existing hub. I tried once and failed, but I didn't try very hard. Good luck.
Click to expand...

There are only a select few varieties of lug nuts that are both tapered for the rim seat and shouldered. Most aftermarket rims are lug centric instead of being hub centric. Drilling out the lug holes on a street rim is a great way to incourage vibration.

Longer studs are a much better option.

The front axle is wider than the back axle is. Another 1/2" is not gonna make any difference in the world.
 
I tried much harder to find longer wheel studs. I've concluded that they do not exist. The front stud's shoulder design is unusual, it is the only such design that I found in all of my searching. Dorman lists a replacement stud. I measured several of them, all were 0.5mm to 1.0mm SHORTER than stock.

I made up a drawing based on the stock stud, but with a longer threaded region and asked ARP to quote it. They gave me a guessitmate of $900-$1000 for 48 of them. Most of that cost was in setting up the tooling to make them. I posted two threads (in the 60 and the Mini forums) asking if anyone else was interested. The price per set would go down a lot if the batch size was large. I got very few interested responses.

Note that with steel wheel that the wheel center thickness is not anything like it is in an alloy wheel. With a 1/4" spacer under a steel center you should still be in the range of one stud diameter worth of thread engagement. With an alloy wheel you're skrewed before you start.

Since I use alloy wheels I may have to go to SAE threaded wheel studs. I do not really like the idea, but I like the lack of thread length engaged even less.
 
The lug nuts to which I reffer are tappered, thus retaining the lug-centric properties. It seems most steel wheels fit fairly snug on the Toyota hub. Vibration was never a problem. I agree its not ideal, but it seemed to be about the only option I had at the time. When I'm done building my current project (stock Toyota front housing stretched six inches) I will look into a domestic wheel stud that can be made to fit the Toyota hubs. I imagine that drilling the hubs will come into play, but I'm not crazy about spacers or lug nuts that are not threaded on all the way.
 
I used to run the ¼" spacers that came with my truck..but a few studs snapped and did without them instead I run a 1½" spacers.. plenty of tread on the stud to grab-to, plenty of clearance on TRE's, and tire still inside the wheel well.... have had zero issues...
 
Come to think of it, i did get some good vibration going at 60+mph when I switched tires/rims; thought it could be a) tires unbalanced; b) tires unbalanced because lead weight is what hit the TRE; or, now, c) lugs not seated properly in rims.

But, bottom line is, in terms of thread, if I have a stud diameter worth of thread to grab onto, im ok?

Maybe better option -- have the 33X11.5X15s put on the stock chrome wheels. Think that would work ok?
Darron
 
One male thread diameter is the generic RoT for minimum thread engagement. You can get away with less, if you really look at a typical nut it is not one diameter tall. A pessimistic Engineer will tell you that 3 threads is all that are ever truly in contact anyway. Then he or she will tell you one diameter.....
 
MANUCHAO said:
I used to run the ¼" spacers that came with my truck..but a few studs snapped and did without them instead I run a 1½" spacers.. plenty of tread on the stud to grab-to, plenty of clearance on TRE's, and tire still inside the wheel well.... have had zero issues...
Click to expand...

i also run 1.5" spacers (trail gear) and have no issues. IMHO the truck handles better and looks better w/ the 33 10.5s
 
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They make 1 inch spacers that have new bolts i'd just buy a set front and rear I'm sure you can get them off ebay for less than 100. Might even find a set on craigslist I got 4 1.5s for I think $60 from a guy who bought them but were the wrong size.
 
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IMO those offset stud spacers are the devil's spawn. I know lots of folks use them. Because of the way that they have to be made they're a rolling stress riser and they're a potential disaster looking for a place to fail.
If you have to buy them, buy them from some place that offers a quality product. Buying on price-point is foolish and dangerous.
 
darroncollins said:
Bought some nice but old 32by11.5by15 BFGs with wheels. Front wheels rubbed against the tie-rod ends. I'm ready to replace the TREs but before doing so need to bump the wheels out by just 1/8-1/4 inch to avoid the rub.

Any advice on where to pick 6-lug 1/4th inch wheel spacers up -- eg, any auto/wheel store or am I best to go online? Is there any problem moving the front out 1/4 inch on both side and leaving the rear as is or do I need to do all four wheels?
Darron
Click to expand...

I have a set(4) of 1/4 spacers that came with my 88 62 that I didn't need when I bought my new wheels/tires. Just pay for shipping and you can have them. PM me if you're interested.

Mike
 
ntsqd said:
IMO those offset stud spacers are the devil's spawn. I know lots of folks use them. Because of the way that they have to be made they're a rolling stress riser and they're a potential disaster looking for a place to fail.
If you have to buy them, buy them from some place that offers a quality product. Buying on price-point is foolish and dangerous.
Click to expand...

I agree, although if your net backspacing is about the same as a stock wheel and you have a quality wheel spacer i think it is acceptable. you probally dont want to know what im running for spacers if there is doubt in the capability of 32" tires and 1/4" spacers though... ;) I have them on both cruisers, ill let you know if they fail on either.
 
cody c said:
I agree, although if your net backspacing is about the same as a stock wheel and you have a quality wheel spacer i think it is acceptable. you probally dont want to know what im running for spacers if there is doubt in the capability of 32" tires and 1/4" spacers though... ;) I have them on both cruisers, ill let you know if they fail on either.
Click to expand...
It isn't the added wear & tear on the spindles (fatigue), wheel bearings, and steering bearings that I object to. It is the stresses in the spacer itself that are the problem. I would really like to see an expertly done FEA color image for the offset stud type of spacer. I am convinced that there will be some really ugly forces in the cantilevered loading that the second set of studs will apply to the aluminum. The fatigue life of the aluminum can't be great.
 
ntsqd said:
It isn't the added wear & tear on the spindles (fatigue), wheel bearings, and steering bearings that I object to. It is the stresses in the spacer itself that are the problem. I would really like to see an expertly done FEA color image for the offset stud type of spacer. I am convinced that there will be some really ugly forces in the cantilevered loading that the second set of studs will apply to the aluminum. The fatigue life of the aluminum can't be great.
Click to expand...

ya when you put it like that it is scary, though in most (keyword "most") driving situations i think it is more of a shear force, as the wheel is pushing directly upwards.

Having said that, sliding sideways on pavement is something that can happen i.e., winter driving and sliding off ice to dry pavement etc. and would probally be a good example of when youll find out exactly how well a spacer will hold up to "cantilevered loading". Which is probally the exact moment when whoever is driving on a set of spacers will wonder, did I pay the extra few bucks for the high end alloy spacers, and how much are they worth to me right now? :doh:
 
I have been running 1/4 wheel spaces for about 45,000kms no troubles yet. with lots of wheelin and gravel roads. including over 1000kms straight on a crushed stone road with no problems YET. not a big fan of them but so far so good. I have lots of stud sticking out for the lugs to grab.

I get a bit of rub on the rear tires @ full stuff and was thinking of upgrading to a set of the 1.5in offset style. I would be happier with the right rims but just couldn't find any I liked that fit.
 
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