Zero oil pressure 2H (1 Viewer)

[cruiserland]

hey there,
I have a new to me 2H, just replaced cracked oil cooler housing and a couple of freeze plugs. Filled with oil and antifreeze and drove with good oil pressure for ten minutes. Parked and idled for ten more minutes. turned it off, cleaned shop. Tried to restart twenty minutes later, and engine would die after 4-5 seconds, would not idle. Determined EDIC shutting off engine due to lack of oil pressue. Confirmed with removal of sender unit; no oil. Pulled oil pan and pick-up screen was clogged, nasty sludge. cleaned pick-up, replaced filter and clean oil ... no pressure, zero. pulled pressure relief valve and cleaned, nothing. drained oil again, cleaneded all oil pickup tubes, pulled and cleaned filter housing and rotor on filter, blew air thru all passages, cleaned pump thru holes. put on pan, new filter, oil, nothing. Gotta be the pump, right? Gear drive off the crank. Has anyone seen one of these gear drive pumps fail so quckly? Could the sludge passed thru sytem with coolant mishap have been the final straw? The odometer reads 300KM, definitely had a rough life. I tried to prime it by loading oil thru pressure relief hole, no luck. tomorrow will try thru filter housing. any other ideas before I pull the whole front cover? Anyone know where I could find some new oil pump gears for a late '80 2H?

 

[Radd Cruisers]

Not always the oil pump as I once thought, could be a big bearing clearance opened up?

Tough call, you did all the right things.

Did you try putting a mechanical oil pressure qauge on and testing?

Yes gear driven pump like the 3B.

Not sure, but when pulling low oil pressure sendor off the engine it does the oppossite and keeps the engine from shutting down under low oil pressure.

 

[bigbrowndog]

Best check the pressure with a mechanical gauge as some motors have very low pressure at idle without there being a serious problem just a fair bit of wear.The drive spline set keys could have sheared so inspect the pump also for wear if it appears ok then it may be only a priming problem.Before refiting the cover fill the pump with petroleum jelly or vasoline it will help the pump pick up the oil much easier.

 

[cruiserland]

thanks for ideas guys
didnot try mech guage; ran without stock guage installed, expected oil to blow out hole. Seems as if pump has lost prime. Big Brown, I wiggled idler gear with finger, it doesn't seem to be stripped at key/splines. Does seem odd that it happened so suddenlyHave heard of vaseline trick, can I get any in there w/out pulling rad, front cover, gears, injection pump, etc? What if I pulled filter housing and blew some 90 weight into delivery tube? Original oil was extremely thick, could PO have filled with sawdust to acheive pressure for sale? Any real products to this effect? Also thinking of lifting rear of truck up and overfilling to fill pump with oil; feasible, no?

There were also some scratches on the plunger for the pressure relief valve in housing, could this valve be sticking? I have removed spring and plunger and tried running also, would this allow oil pressur or prevent it? Am not sure of releif valve's function...
Perhaps a flexible tube thru relief hole will allow petro jelly into pump...
could the housing be worn so much, the removal of all scud inside opened clearances too much? doesn't toyota sell oversive gears for 22R pumps with this problem? any new/low mileage housings/pumps out there?
Kina

Rob, did you find a 55 yet?

 

[Tapage]

I got my oil pump gears from my local Toyota Dealer ( not cheap ! ) anycase other thing to check that come to mi mind ( 6 years agoo do my 2H overhaull ) the rubber ring around the pump .. ? leaking press . ?

 

[PVCruiser]

What is a good oil pressure for a 3B motor? I'm sure it says in the FSM, but mine is at the shop and I am not...

Thanks

Seth

 

[lowenbrau]

Did you inspect the pressure bypass right at the pump? (as opposed the the one near the filter) I've seen them freeze open and dump all the oil back to the pan. I can't imagine an oil pump of this type failing. It will get less effective over time but never actually stop pumping unless the splines on the crank fail altogether.

 

[DieselROCKS]

The relief valve has quit on me before. I've had to prime the pump too.

 

[cruiserland]

Going with assumption relief valve and bypass valve(lowenbrau) are same. this is located under injection pump on side of pump housing. what happens when relief valve fails? BBD has suggested relief valve failure. Should there be any pressure from spring when installing the plug /spring/valve? When I install mine I definitely need to push hard to compress spring, to start threads of plug. Big Brown Dog, did you mean that when you replaced your relief valve assembly, the new sping was easier to compress than the old one?
lowenbrau_ how do I know if plug is in too far and dumping into pan as you suggest? can you explain how this releif valve works? If spring were pushing too hard would cause no pressure? Is oil pressure supposed to push the relief plug back partway while running? FSM on way hopefully
dieselROCKS, how did you prime the oil pump? how did valve quit? suddenly?

 

[Tapage]

What is a good oil pressure for a 3B motor? I'm sure it says in the FSM, but mine is at the shop and I am not...

Thanks

Seth

Not sure about 3B but in my 2H

62 PSI @ 2000 rpm operative temp ..

So the Max Ellerie advice about 36 PSI to 85 PSI are aceptable under normal use and operative temp @ 2000 rpm ..

Also advice at idle min press need to be over 8 PSI .. ( too low for me .. )

For reference I'm using 20W-50 Castrol in my half millon engine with idle press over 22 PSI at operative temp.

 

[lshobie]

Strange that it ran fine then just wouldnt start for more than a few seconds.

Is it possible that you are overlooking something else. Maybe a fuel problem?

If there was a lot of sludge then maybe run some tranny fluid through it to thin out the goop.

Mechanical oil pressure guage is the way to test for sure though.

Did you prime the oil filter first?

Good luck.

 

[bigbrowndog]

Big Brown Dog, did you mean that when you replaced your relief valve assembly, the new sping was easier to compress than the old one?
No, as I said there is a longer aftermarket piston available that compensates for the wear in the bore of the housing.As the cost of a new housing is somewhere near $650.00 from memory.I did not change my spring as I said I put a new piston in the housing..When the piston is worn it does not sit square on in the bore and this will be shown by scouring of the sides of the old piston and the housing will be worn also.The new longer piston is held square on as the extra length is held by an area that has not had wear..I am referring to the relief valve in the oil pump. There is also a relief valve in the top of the oil filter housing.They are different sizes and are not interchangeable.Both should be checked.I would check the bore of both housings to make sure there are no sharps that are catching or restricting the piston in movement. The oil cooler should be checked to make sure its not blocked.
When you installed the oil cooler did you place all the long bolts and short bolts in the correct position.
Oil pressure at idle can be 0.3kg/cm2 , 4.3 PSI , 29kpa I would suggest yours could be lower than that if it has 300,000km and been neglected by the P.O.If you disconnect the low pressure shut off the motor will run regardless of what oil pressure is available. If the bearings are faulty or badly worn you would notice very high oil pressure at start up with a sharp drop in pressure as the oil warms to operating temp, Desirable is 80/85 lbs at 3,000 rpm.Also the little big end men will be hammering inside the donk with hammers that get bigger and bigger.Might be worth changing the oil filter again as it may have copped some gunk after you had the sump and oil cooler off.

 

[cruiserland]

OK, I get it. My piston does have significant scoring, mostly on one side.
Don't seem to need to change filter, as no oil has even reached it; I am talking NO oil is being pumped into block at all. Relief valve can let oil dump back into sump? still not sure how to prime pump...

 

[DieselROCKS]

To prime it I let a little oil sit in the sun to get it thin, unscrewed the bolt that holds the relief valve in, stuffed in a tube that fit nice and poured in the oil. It took some patience but it did it.
I did everything to get it to prime, even mixed it down with diesel to get it real thin but in the end, the priming worked

 

[aussie75series]

I just replaced the pump piston due to high pressure on start up,with a longer piston and it works perfectly and took 10 mins

 

[Tapage]

notice very high oil pressure at start up with a sharp drop in pressure as the oil warms to operating temp, Desirable is 80/85 lbs at 3,000 rpm

This PSI at 3 000 rpm .. cold or normal operative temp . ?

 

[bigbrowndog]

This PSI at 3 000 rpm .. cold or normal operative temp . ?

With the oil pressure check it should be done at normal operating temperature. Same for any check on vacuum and compression.
As the 2H is very common around here it is not unusual to hear"my 2H is x years old and still shows at least 1/4 to 1/2 way up the gauge on idle." When you explain that is the pressure relief valve on its way out the door some still do not listen. My engine was fitted with an oil pressure gauge and in a week it went from high oil pressure on start up to bending a filter and dumping my oil everywhere while driving.These pumps can make well over 120 lb with a crook pressure relief valve at well under 2,000 RPM.This pic of my old gauge shows how the pointer was bent on the post as it wanted to pass 0 again.
Cruiserland,,,, If you don't mind me suggesting I would be inclined to replace the piston in your valve as you say its obvious that it is scored.Priming the pump may start it again but it may stop just as quick while drivivg and then it may be a complete rebuild.You need to identify the fault that has caused the oil loss.cheers.

 

[cruiserland]

Yes Big Brown, I am going to start there. I have found a source for the new and improved extended relief valve, price does seem high. Can you get these or point me in a direction? I may be inclined to purchase several. I have an hj60 with chronic filter leak, sounds like yours.
I still can't see my valve sticking open, the scoring doesn't seem deep enough, and it does move fairly easily, but it is possible. will try to stick my eyeball in there to look for any scratches or ridges.
oil pumps thru filter first, then cooler right?
Thanks for help all

 

[aussie75series]

Yes Big Brown, I am going to start there. I have found a source for the new and improved extended relief valve, price does seem high. Can you get these or point me in a direction? I may be inclined to purchase several. I have an hj60 with chronic filter leak, sounds like yours.
I still can't see my valve sticking open, the scoring doesn't seem deep enough, and it does move fairly easily, but it is possible. will try to stick my eyeball in there to look for any scratches or ridges.
oil pumps thru filter first, then cooler right?
Thanks for help all

I have an Email Address for my source (marshall@uow.edu.au) If you have hassles with getting them sent let me know and we will work something out.I might be able to freight them to you.

 

[chambers60]

cruiserland,
where did you source the new valve? I may need in the future and it would be nice to have the information.
Thanks bob