Yet another help me with tire selection analysis paralysis thread

[gx2lc]

Hi all,

Posting to this forum instead of Wheel/Tire because this seems slightly more active and also is pertinent to the 200. Also, I have searched and read every thread I could find on tire sizing a few times! I still felt compelled to post as I have some Qs I haven't been able to find answers for.

I just purchased a 2019 CPO Land Cruiser. I have the 18x8 Heritage BBS forged rims coming in. I'm excited to replace the stock Deulers with something better suited to our needs.

Ranked wants and use cases:

1. All terrain and condition dependability: We're currently in NY and maybe moving in TX or WA. Moreover we are planning cross country overland trips that might see us in a variety of climates and road conditions. We also are into (albeit bad at) surfing and for-see many beach runs in the future.
2. Ride comfort and quietness: LC is my daily driver and I'll be hauling customers and family around 80% of the time.
3. No rubbing at full lock or articulation: I put slightly larger tires (31.5 over stock 30.5) and had the slighest rubbing at full lock which drove my wife crazy.
4. Aesthetics: Prefer the look of a bigger and more aggressive tire
5. MPG
6. Towing: There is some small chance we'll want to tow our other vehicle (5k lbs). I'm OK with increased wear on the tires, but not OK if there is a safety trade off

100% understand that one cannot have it all, so I stack ranked priorities so it's easier to make trade offs.

Given our needs, I'm looking at A/Ts that are known to be quiet on road. Some tires and sizes I'm considering:

• Yokohama Geolandar GO15 -- Seems ideal
• Toyo Open Country AT3 -- Seems ideal. I am considering 275/65R18-SL (32.1"). The other option is LT285/65/R18 (32.6") which members here report no rubbing. However it is E Rated (12 lbs heavier than the SL variant!) and approved rim width is 8.5-10.0. The BBS forged wheels are 8s. Maybe 0.5" difference in rim width doesn't matter given that folks here run that same size on the same wheels.
• Cooper Discoverer AT3 4S -- I had these on my GX460 and loved them. However there is an open recall on them so I am reluctant to purchases again...
• Nitto Ridge Grappler / Terra Grappler -- need to research more on these.
• Falken Wildpeak AT3W -- These would be higher on my list if it wasn't for the chatter in a couple threads here on the compound changing.

So in terms of Qs:

1. Is P metric advantageous for my use cases over LT? I gather LT tires ride harder due to stiffer side wall and require more pressure. Since I'll be airing down for the beach, would a P-metric tire be better because it can operate at a lower PSI? Beaches require 15-20
2. Are there any C rated options I could consider as a middle ground between P and E?
3. Is it OK to tow with a P-metric tire if towing will not be common? I'm OK with increased wear on the tires, but not OK if there is a safety risk. The Open Country AT3 SL275/65R18 tires have a max load of 2756x4 = 11k lbs. The LT285/65/R18 have 3640x4 = 14.5k lbs. A 6K land cruiser + occupants + towing a 5K trailer = >11k lbs. So answering my own Q, it seems the P-metric would be a bad idea for the load I might tow. I am just not sure if that's bad in terms of safety or wear or both.
4. Are there any other tires, load ranges, and sizes that I should consider?
5. I see mixed feedback here about rubbing on 285/65R18. Most indicate no rubbing on the driveway. How about with articulation? I'm most concerned of being on a trail and hearing the clunk of tire going up.

Appreciate any feedback in advance!

 

[21200]

I have the 275/65r18 toyo ATIII's and have been very happy with it. Yes you could squeeze a larger tire but like you said, you are going to pay for it in weight and stiffness/ride quality. This is what they look like with a ~2" lift. I think they would look very good and fit nicely on stock height:

Be aware that toyo makes a 6 ply and a 4 ply in that size. I chose the 6 ply. The 6 ply has a deeper tread and a more agressive sidewall than the 4 ply. It is a significantly more aggressive looking tire. I was not willing to put a 10 ply tire on my vehicle, and the ATIII was one of the only options I could find for an 18" rim. I have had 4 sets of these tires on different vehicles and always been happy with them.

Just curious, where did you find the heritage wheels for sale? I have tried to order a few times and always had my order canceled due to toyota's restrictions, even when using a heritage vin.

 

[Madtiger]

I think that some of the larger 285/65/18 do rub on the KDSS bar up front ever so slightly. Not all 285/65/18 are created equal size. Look at the rev / mile and compare.

See: LT285/65/18 + 18” stock rims and KDSS - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/lt285-65-18-18-stock-rims-and-kdss.1214411/#post-13149896

For me personally, i went with the safest route possible…stuck with stock size…and got BFG KO2 Load Range D. No chance of rubbing anything with stock suspension. No need to change spare tire (thus saving a few $$$). I figure that Load Range D won’t be too punishing (vs. E), while still plenty tough for off-roading or towing or cargo carrying. And at 26k miles, they remain remarkably quiet.

My only complaint with them is mileage has dropped by around 1 mpg. So, next time around, i may consider Michelin Defender XL in stock size...but since i am a bit vain, i may stay with KO2 due to looks.

 

[Tex68w]

Of those you've listed I would pick the Nitto Ridge Grappler or the Toyo ATIII's, the BFG KO2 is another worth considering for your needs as well. I can't help you in regards to size, I am always trying to fit the biggest tire possible lol.

 

[bloc]

Rubbing with 285/65/18 depends a lot on the tire model. I had KO2s in this size on stock wheels with no rub and I’m not exaggerating when I say there was 1/16” of clearance in a couple spots.. but it didn’t rub. But, KO2s are usually small for a given size. The same size toyo or whatever may have rubbed like crazy.

If you are that sensitive to rubbing you should probably pick a model you like and stick with stock size. It’ll still be incredibly capable.

And no, there is no issue towing on a SL/XL tire as long as it meets or exceeds the stock tire load rating.

 

[rscoleman]

I am running Nitto Terra Grappler G2 285/60R18 120S XL. 65K Tire warranty. I live near Austin. I tow a boat and run regular highway miles. Ride is fine, wet weather no issue. These are not as stiff as E load but they are stiffer than factory which I think are 116load. They are quite enough with Radio on at very low volumes. I have about 9K on them so far. They replaced factory tires. As they are stock size I kept stock spare. I did go to Hidden Falls one weekend and had zero issues. They aired down just fine and show no real signs of being torn up. FYI I run mine at 38psi cold once warm they show about 40psi. This is not math value but chalk across tread value. Good luck with your selection.

 

[coleAK]

Ok. So all of your prospective tires are AT tires but of your selection criteria the only one that favors an AT tire is the most subjective one #4 aesthetics.

why not Michelin LTX or similar? Compared to the tires you chose will have better: ride, mpg, quietness, all weather performance. And can handle all just the harshest off roading (that you would need lift,sliders, winch,... for anyway) I would also say he better in the sand then the beefier chunky tread AT tires.

If I didn’t do some fairly harsh off roading I’d be running defender LTX. Heck I’ve considered mounting some on an additional set of rims to run as my primary summer tires except when I go off road more often in the late summer fall.

 

[bloc]

why not Michelin LTX or similar? Compared to the tires you chose will have better: ride, mpg, quietness, all weather performance.

Agreed. This should be given a serious look.

 

[Madtiger]

Ok. So all of your prospective tires are AT tires but of your selection criteria the only one that favors an AT tire is the most subjective one #4 aesthetics.

why not Michelin LTX or similar? Compared to the tires you chose will have better: ride, mpg, quietness, all weather performance. And can handle all just the harshest off roading (that you would need lift,sliders, winch,... for anyway) I would also say he better in the sand then the beefier chunky tread AT tires.

If I didn’t do some fairly harsh off roading I’d be running defender LTX. Heck I’ve considered mounting some on an additional set of rims to run as my primary summer tires except when I go off road more often in the late summer fall.

Exactly…i don’t plan on taking my LC anymore to harsh stuff and i want to squeeze out a few more miles per tank…so, stock-sized Defender XL sure looks appetizing. But, damn, Defenders look sooooo boring!!

 

[gx2lc]

Thanks @coleAK It's a good point. I think the other point is the first consideration (All Terrain dependability) we were planning to overland travel deciding between a tour of the west (if we go to WA) or Mexico/Baja (if we go to TX). For that reason I figured focusing on AT would be a good idea. However overlanding =/= harsh off roading but it'ss not highway work either. I guess the Q is if the Defenders H/T could handle that type of terrain. I wish I could be more specific than 'that' I think it's just that I haven't been on the trails in either location and figure going A/T is the best policy against the fear of getting stuck

 

[Madtiger]

Thanks @coleAK It's a good point. I think the other point is the first consideration (All Terrain dependability) we were planning to overland travel deciding between a tour of the west (if we go to WA) or Mexico/Baja (if we go to TX). For that reason I figured focusing on AT would be a good idea. However overlanding =/= harsh off roading but it'ss not highway work either. I guess the Q is if the Defenders H/T could handle that type of terrain. I wish I could be more specific than 'that' I think it's just that I haven't been on the trails in either location and figure going A/T is the best policy against the fear of getting stuck

Defender carcass is very tough. Probably on par with most on-road oriented ATs. It is rare to read about sidewall tears or failure on various forums i have been to and from conversation i have had with Michelin reps. It is not good at all in mud...but neither are most ATs.

 

[TLC2013]

Another highway tire to consider that competes with the Michelin Defenders is the NOKIAN ONE HT. It’s as boring looking looking as the defenders, decided to give it a try after going back and forth between them and the defenders. It’s a newly released all session tire that uses a kevlar like compound for durability. I am running them for daily driving in LT275/70r18. They offer a bunch of sizes from P rated to LT E. I really like them. Quiet and smooth.

Nokian Tyres One HT – All-Season Tire for Light Trucks, Pickup Trucks and SUVs / Nokian Tyres / Nokian Tires

The Nokian Tyres One HT is a premium, long-lasting and rugged all-season tire crafted for back roads and daily urban driving. Designed to perform safely and precisely in all conditions, the tire is built to provide reliable grip, stability and handling on dry, wet and slick roads. The perfect...

www.google.com

 

[Tex68w]

Defenders are good tires but life is too short to run such a boring, ugly, uninspiring tire, YMMV.

 

[TLC2013]

Defenders are good tires but life is too short to run such a boring, ugly, uninspiring tire, YMMV.

Lol too true plus they last forever, I have read reports of them going to 100K with regular rotations. I am experiementing with having two sets of wheels/tires. One for wheeling and adventures and a second set of highway all season tires for daily use on stock wheels.

 

[coleAK]

Thanks @coleAK It's a good point. I think the other point is the first consideration (All Terrain dependability) we were planning to overland travel deciding between a tour of the west (if we go to WA) or Mexico/Baja (if we go to TX). For that reason I figured focusing on AT would be a good idea. However overlanding =/= harsh off roading but it'ss not highway work either. I guess the Q is if the Defenders H/T could handle that type of terrain. I wish I could be more specific than 'that' I think it's just that I haven't been on the trails in either location and figure going A/T is the best policy against the fear of getting stuck

As for Baja, Appropriately airing down is more critical then tire type in the sand. And less aggressive tread is better in the sand. Best sand tire I’ve even run on any of my cruisers was the OEM latitudes that came on my LX. In the Middle East people run aviation tires on their cruisers. LTX will handle any over landing scenario just fine and will be better in the snow and rain.

and I’m in Alaska. Drive all over AK and northern Canada. When I go north of the Arctic circle I carry 2 extra spares and 20 gallons of gas. I would have no second guesses in running LTX or similar tire over landing 300 miles from the nearest gas station and 500 miles from the nearest tire service center where I regularly go up here in AK.

 

[coleAK]

Another highway tire to consider that competes with the Michelin Defenders is the NOKIAN ONE HT. It’s as boring looking looking as the defenders, decided to give it a try after going back and forth between them and the defenders. It’s a newly released all session tire that uses a kevlar like compound for durability. I am running them for daily driving in LT275/70r18. They offer a bunch of sizes from P rated to LT E. I really like them. Quiet and smooth.

Nokian Tyres One HT – All-Season Tire for Light Trucks, Pickup Trucks and SUVs / Nokian Tyres / Nokian Tires

The Nokian Tyres One HT is a premium, long-lasting and rugged all-season tire crafted for back roads and daily urban driving. Designed to perform safely and precisely in all conditions, the tire is built to provide reliable grip, stability and handling on dry, wet and slick roads. The perfect...

www.google.com

Good point on Nokians. Only tire brand I’ll run in the winter. Right now I’m still on Hakka 7 on the LX and Hakka 7, 8 and 9 on our other vehicles. Hopefully can get back to summer tires soon’ish.

 

[stonepa]

Defender carcass is very tough. Probably on par with most on-road oriented ATs. It is rare to read about sidewall tears or failure on various forums i have been to and from conversation i have had with Michelin reps. It is not good at all in mud...but neither are most ATs.

Amen - those are the tires I have used for most if not all of my driving in the US and Mexico. The Defenders take a beating driving long distance on the worst corrugated gravel roads with not an issue. They even survived a lot of driving on the shards of glass they call gravel around Death Valley with no issues. I have 40k on my current set and I am only at 50% wear.

 

[Madtiger]

Amen - those are the tires I have used for most if not all of my driving in the US and Mexico. The Defenders take a beating driving long distance on the worst corrugated gravel roads with not an issue. They even survived a lot of driving on the shards of glass they call gravel around Death Valley with no issues. I have 40k on my current set and I am only at 50% wear.

What size ?

 

[stonepa]

What size ?

Stock 285 60R18 in XL load

 

[coleAK]

I just looked and defender comes in a few options for 33” 34”

285/70-17 and even a 295/70 -18

I was going to go with wild peaks or Toyo AT3 this summer when I replace my KO2s but now that I think about or defender LTX may be my next summer tire.