Yellow Hi-Beams?

[mot]

Cary,

What took you so long?

If you go the Hella retrofit route (I would love to do a bixenon in the low spot and a larger driving lamp grafted into the high spot for extra light in the backroad ) make sure that you get rid of the glass, textured lenses and fabricate Lexan(sp)/plexiglass(?) w/o any textures for the correct/maximam brightness.

Good luck!

Mot

 

[TFS55]

P.I. is the Philippines.

yes we have not tried HIR's here the brightest light we have not counting HID's are the IPF 170/100 H4, if you have tried these bulbs you wont need the HID's and would not certainly go back to the 900x series bulbs that are crap.

the replacements prices are for each. the aussie spec lights but for LHD will run around 400 USD but they are not Bnew, we get them from local version LC's that change to one piece lamps like what you have there but uses H4/H1 bulbs.

 

[mot]

P.I. is the Philippines.

yes we have not tried HIR's here the brightest light we have not counting HID's are the IPF 170/100 H4, if you have tried these bulbs you wont need the HID's and would not certainly go back to the 900x series bulbs that are crap.

the replacements prices are for each. the aussie spec lights but for LHD will run around 400 USD but they are not Bnew, we get them from local version LC's that change to one piece lamps like what you have there but uses H4/H1 bulbs.

Ah, the Phillipines. I see.

Do you mean the bulbs used in the IPF Super Rally 930? I was under the impression that they were only made/good for them specifically hence would not fit regular H4's. But maybe I'm wrong here.

Let me see if I can post a pic of the H4/H1 units you are talking about, except these are for the RHD.

And also another one for the regular JDM.



Mot

 

[cary]

P.I. is the Philippines.

yes we have not tried HIR's here the brightest light we have not counting HID's are the IPF 170/100 H4, if you have tried these bulbs you wont need the HID's and would not certainly go back to the 900x series bulbs that are crap.

I'm going to disspoint you a bit. While the IPF bulbs are bright, they are not as great as you might think. Here are the Lumens output for the various H4 Bulbs:

55/60 1000/1650
80/100 1500/2600
90/130 1820/3550

Extrapolating for 100/170 Approx 2000/4100

HID lamps 3000-3200 lumens

9006 lamp 1000 lumens
9005 lamp 1700 lumens

9012 HIR retrofit 1875 lumens
9012 HIR retrofit 2350 lumens

Now on the low beams your 100 watt H4bulb is putting out 2000 lumens versus the 1875 of the HIR, not a whole lot of difference. On the high beams, you lamps are putting out 4100 lumens, a lot, but the HIR combo with the low an high beam running (as a 900x setup does and you cannot do with a high output H4 because of heat problems) puts out 4225 lumens.

In the end, the HIR setup is putting out as much light as your 100/170 H4 setup, plus there is no compromise between the low and the high beam because you don't have to cut a compromise lens like with an H4 to perform both low and high beam duties. The difference becomes the pattern between a US spec light and a Euro spec (or japan spec in your case), which over the years has dimminshied. The effeciency of both assemblies is equal as they are both a reflector lens setup.

So now the question rises of why I would recommend the Hella retrofit with H9 bulbs that put out only 2100 lumens, not much more than the HIR or high watt H4. It has to do with the efficiency of the housing. The stock reflector/lens assembly used in both the US and overseas LC is only about 27% effiecient at getting the light on the road (the 100 series uses a Free Form reflector and assembly which is about 45% efficient, this is the reason you see so many cars using the new FF assembly). The Hellas use a second generation ellipsoid design which is about 52% efficient. So while the bulbs aren't much brighter, you are getting twice as much light out of the fixture, in effect like having 4000 lumen low beam bulbs in the standard housing and 8000 lumens worth of light for the high beams. (note that while bulbs are measured in lumens, the actual total output of the lamp is measured in Candela, but I don't have a way of getting that for all the lamps).

See this great link for a discussion of the efficiency of different lamp fixtures as well as beam types (traditional US, Euro, new homoginized US/Euro lamps, and JDM LHD lamps)

http://faq.auto.light.tripod.com/hl-systems.htm

So now we get to the issue, of why I am not jumping up and down over the idea of the Hella retrofit with HID's. It has to do with color rendering. The HIDs have a low color rendering index which makes it harder to see compared to an equivilant output Halegeon lamp. This is the reason you are seeing race cars starting to run yellow tinted HID bulbs. See this link about color rendering:

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/disadvantages/disadvantages.html

 

[cary]

Cary,


If you go the Hella retrofit route (I would love to do a bixenon in the low spot and a larger driving lamp grafted into the high spot for extra light in the backroad ) make sure that you get rid of the glass, textured lenses and fabricate Lexan(sp)/plexiglass(?) w/o any textures for the correct/maximam brightness.

Good luck!

Mot

It is not even an option, you have to get rid of the glass as it would interfear with the lighting pattern.

Cary

 

[cary]

Finally here is a link showing what an efficient lamp like the Hella retrofits (the ones in this link are actually Cibie CSR lamps) can do compared to a traditional H4 lamp.

http://dastern.torque.net/Photometry/575.html


And finally some more information about lighting output.


Depends which 5-3/4" "Hella or Bosch or Cibie" E-code headlamps you get.

The best headlamps you can put in a W116, period, are these:

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/products/csr.html

> I will want to upgrade to one or the other,and I think the car would
> look better with the euro headlights


Performance of the Hella-Bosch-Cibie 5-3/4" H4 units on low beam is rather
middling, though beam formation is fairly good. This is because of the
small reflector active area combined with the inherent efficiency problem
of an H4 bulb: you only get to use 60 percent of the total reflector area
on low beam! With a large enough reflector/lens and careful optic design
this isn't a problem, but it starts being problematic when you're trying
to wring decent performance out of 60 percent of an already small
reflector (5-3/4" round, 165mm x 100mm rectangular...)

Wanna see some objective comparisons?
Take a look at
http://www.torque.net/~dastern/Photometry/575.html

These are isocandela diagrams for different 5-3/4" round headlamp units.
From top to bottom: Halogen sealed beam, Cibie H4 (best of the major-name
units), Cibie CSR (best lamp you can put on a W116).

If you're not familiar with isocandela diagrams, these will look like
random squiggles and lines. Think of it as a topographic or "contour" map
of the correctly-aimed beam pattern. Each differently-colored line
represents the threshold of a particular intensity level, with the color
legend located to the right of the isocandela diagram. The diagram is
plotted on a chart calibrated in degrees. Straight ahead is represented by
(0,0), that is, zero degrees up-down and zero degrees left-right.

To get a mental approximation of the units and amounts under discussion
here:

Parking lamp: About 60 to 100 candela
Front turn signal: About 500 candela
Glaring high-beam daytime running lamps (e.g. Saturn): 8000 candela

The parameters to pay attention to are the luminous flux (total amount of
light within the beam), the maximum intensity and its location within the
beam relative to the axial point (H,V) -- the less downward/rightward
offset, the longer the seeing distance -- stray light outside the beam
pattern and effective beam width (contained within the dark-turquoise 500
candela contour)

I'll discuss the flat-lens Euro units in my response to Nate Nagel further
down in this thread.

DS

 

[mot]

It is not even an option, you have to get rid of the glass as it would interfear with the lighting pattern.

Cary

Wasn't that what I said? If not that's what I intended anyway to get of the glass (textured) lenses.

As alway, Cary, thanks for your info.

Now off I go jogging!

Mot

 

[cary]

Just driving the point home.

 

[mot]

Had to post and let you know that I did make it back from jogging.

I think "Linus" (sp) was trying to improve lighting of his stock headlights. I remember him looking for a spare one, even a cracked one. So this lead me to believe that he was up to something, more than just popping in a higher-wattage bulb.

Anyway... just thinking out loud, I guess

 

[TFS55]

did i say that HIR's are not good? i was referring to the stock or even higher wattage 900x series bulbs. I was comparing them to the H4 IPF's yes the one used in the 930 super rally. i know you know a lot about lights based on your posts and from the internet websites you have posted. but i was basing my opinion on our experiences. we do not have yet the HIR's here but i bet they are good. also the LC80 H4/H1 lights we usually wire it that when you are in low beam the outer lens is on the 170 of the bulb and when you switch to high the inner light H1 adds so we have four lights that light up in effect you have a 170 watt low beam and 170+130 watt high beam so approx you have 4100+3550 lumens if my addition is correct that adds up to 7650 lumens. i dont know if it is bright enough.

for added info we use customized wiring harness for our headlamps using gauge 10 wires for each bulb to maximize power and use ceramic headlight sockets.

we also have free form lenses here i myself have FF IPF aux lights with H4 bulbs coupled with IPF headlight inserts all have IPF 170/100 H4 bulbs so if i put them all on total lumens is 8200. the not all roads here are lighted and not all drivers here give you low beams if your highs are not bright enough. we have the option also to put HID's but from our experience also it lacks depth, we have installed them in sport tracs and expeditions as we have no other brighter light choice, well maybe the HIR's if it arrives here. and we dont have laws regarding the wattage of light bulbs that you have, we i think we have.

im not saying that the IPFs are the best just as i mentioned just basing my opinion on our experinces. i used to have Cibie super oscars but the reflectors stated to rust so had to put them aside, and they were great lights also.

i like your post i learned a lot btw. thanks.

 

[cary]

Just to note the HIR is a 900x bulb. I should clarify that the point I am trying to make was not addressed toward you, but others who are considering dropping $650+ to convert to LHD lights. It used to be with the old US sealed beam lights that just about anything was a phenomenal improvement. The H4 Euro lamps were such an amazing upgrade, it was not even funny. Now with things like HIR's, new H9 bulbs and lamps that meet Euro and US spec that gap has been diminished. The H4 lamps still have a slight to moderately better pattern but the light output is not much greater, if at all. For those that aren't happy with the US spec lamps in the LC, you should drive my 91 Pathfinder (for sale btw) with 9004 bulbs, 700 lumes on the low beams, 1200 lumens for the high, and no upgrade possible. I finally supplemented them with Cibie Osrams.

A question. You said you are running the 100/170 bulbs set up to have both filimants lit on the high beams. While I have heard of this being done with 55/60 bulbs, I had heard doing this with the high watt bulbs would result in instant bulb failure, melting of the connectors and possible damage to the housing. Have you seen any problems with doing this? BTW, you need to post a pict from the drivers seat with all lit at night, must be a sight!!!

 

[TFS55]

we dont run them together, with four lamp cars eg. LC80 we use the high 170 as low beam and the inner lamp H1 as additonal light when in high beam. what happens is the low of the H4 bulb is not used anymore, this is also because the low of the IPF is not good since its is a for off road/race use only. also we use tint or window film in out windsheild so that we cannot be seen inside the car the more reason that we have to make our lights brighter than stock. if i have the time will get the piture of the light from the driver point of view of my friens LC80 with the said light set-up. have trouble attaching pics in this forum.

yes have seen the lights on the pathfinder we call them the terrano here but the lights uses H4 bulbs here so hence we can improve the light output a lot.

 

[TFS55]

this is a sample view from my truck. IPF 170/100 with aux lights IPF 900 series with 170/100 watt buls all in high beam.

and a LC80 with a 4lamp config

 

[Crusin]

P.I. is the Philippines.

yes we have not tried HIR's here the brightest light we have not counting HID's are the IPF 170/100 H4, if you have tried these bulbs you wont need the HID's and would not certainly go back to the 900x series bulbs that are crap.

the replacements prices are for each. the aussie spec lights but for LHD will run around 400 USD but they are not Bnew, we get them from local version LC's that change to one piece lamps like what you have there but uses H4/H1 bulbs.

TFS55 kumusta. Nice to see a fellow pinoy. I'm learnning alot from this forum.

 

[drohweder]

Didn't read all the post but from the sounds of your title you may want to make sure your headlight fluid is clean. Sometimes yellowing is caused by it getting denatured due to time and heat. A complete drain, flush and new fluids should do the trick.

 

[IdahoDoug]

For those looking for foul weather driving capability or dramatically increased illumination, consider adding auxiliary lights rather than a conversion of the stock headlamps. Stepping back a bit and looking at this issue from a system standpoint, you're trying to make the stock headlamps do everything well and that's not always a sound strategy. Far better to make whatever improvements you need for strong stock lamps to use in normal driving, then add specialized auxiliary lamps for the specific lighting need you have beyond this. In other words, have a separate tool for each task.

I've done a couple euro lamp conversions on my past vehicles with good results. But they were expensive and I lived in fear of flying gravel or a minor parking lot parking bump due to the difficulty and cost of the setup.

In 1993 when I got our 80, I upgraded the stock bulbs and added a pair of Hella 3000s to the front bumper. One 3000 was a fog beam pattern, the other a euro driving beam pattern. With the huge reflectors on these, the single fog put out more than a pair of typical sized fogs and the same was true of the driving lamp vs a pair of normal driving lamps. I wired them separately so I had complete control of my specific needs and was quite happy. The driving lamp handled a 130w bulb for awhile (eventually removed it as they were literally too bright and caused temporary night blindness when turned off for oncoming traffic) as these are professional grade large volume lamps designed for competition. Cosmetically, they simply look like a pair of matching 3000s.

Today, you could do the same with the 4000 series and have a high output system with specific lamps for specific duties that can meet any driving or weather challenge for less than $300 (pair of 4000s in your chosen formats, plus stock bulb upgrades.

I would argue this setup has superior optics and superior output to doing a complex conversion of the 80s factory lamps. But most of all, those conversions have a way of going awry with moisture getting into ad hoc seals, heat damage, aiming problems and a host of things that can take a lot of satisfaction away from what began as an intent to upgrade lighting. By contrast, my approach uses proven systems and produces ultimate reliability. My own system has operated without fail or issue for 140,000 miles now. The only change I've made was to switch out the euro 3000 for another 3000 fog as better upgrade bulbs became available to bolster high beam output and the need for foul weather visibility (and older eyes) made the fog pattern more helpful than in years past.

DougM

 

[TFS55]

again IPF's taken about 15 mts away from the vehicle

 

[TFS55]

Crusin, hi ok lang

sorry cant attach the 4 lamp will not fit the attachments.

 

[cary]

For those looking for foul weather driving capability or dramatically increased illumination, consider adding auxiliary lights rather than a conversion of the stock headlamps. Stepping back a bit and looking at this issue from a system standpoint, you're trying to make the stock headlamps do everything well and that's not always a sound strategy. Far better to make whatever improvements you need for strong stock lamps to use in normal driving, then add specialized auxiliary lamps for the specific lighting need you have beyond this. In other words, have a separate tool for each task.

DougM

I second this concept. Many people do not understand, but part of lamp efficiency is the size of the reflector. The larger the reflector for a given design of lamp, the more ouptput for a given bulb size. For people looking for upgrades to the high beams, Doug's idea works fabulously. My only suggestion would be to use the Euro beam for the driving lamp rather than a pencil beam, which tends to be to focused. For myself, I prefer if possible to use a pair of fog lamps mounted low, so they can be run with the low beams in bad weather to help with side illumination and then a pair of Euro beams mounted up higher that are wired to come on with the high beams (with a cutoff switch so you can keep them from comming on if you want).

One thing most people don't realize is how far lighting in the US has come in the past 20 years. Even my crummy pathfinder 9004 lamps with 700 lumen low beams, are a major upgrade from the horrible 35 watt low beam sealed lamp bulbs that were the norm for 50 years in the US.

 

[mot]

For those looking for foul weather driving capability or dramatically increased illumination, consider adding auxiliary lights rather than a conversion of the stock headlamps.

...I lived in fear of flying gravel or a minor parking lot parking bump due to the difficulty and cost of the setup.
DougM

Doug,

Actually, I was thinking about doing both (headlight mod and aux. lighting: driving and fog(mounted in bumber/bull bar).

And as for worrying about flying debris, isn't that what your products are designed for? Or is it why you decided to start your business?

Mot