wish me luck: smog refs... (1 Viewer)

[philos1]

It does matter!!

There was never a manual transmission offered behind a 350 tbi in California. The ref will not pass it. It must be an auto.




I'm not so sure that's true. mine passed inspection (yes, it's a vortec) with the toyota 5 speed. and I know for fact that GM offered the TBI in front of a manual in CA because I test drove one in the early 90s.

if the engine was never offered with a manual trans, then yes, you are correct. if it was sold/offered in CA with one then you are good to go.

 

[TemboTusk]

I does not matter.

It does matter!!

There was never a manual transmission offered behind a 350 tbi in California. The ref will not pass it. It must be an auto.




I'm not so sure that's true. mine passed inspection (yes, it's a vortec) with the toyota 5 speed. and I know for fact that GM offered the TBI in front of a manual in CA because I test drove one in the early 90s.

if the engine was never offered with a manual trans, then yes, you are correct. if it was sold/offered in CA with one then you are good to go.

I don't know about the Vortec, but according to the dealer, late 80s, early 90s 350 tbi never came with a manual in any vehicle including the Corvette.

The truck you test drove may have originated out of state.

 

[D'Animal]

It may matter by the county in California. I think alot of it has to do with the ref though. I went to a ref in Porterville and he flunked my Mopar Fuel injection conversion on my CJ-8. I had the wrong hose on my PVC line so he flunked me. It had writing on it and he said PVC hoses were not suppose to have writting on them.

My next inspection was at College of the Seqouias in Visalia. He popped the hood looked at it and closed the hood. He never even used the hood rod. He asked me why I was having a ref look at it. I told him taht I though I was suppose too and that the guy at the emmission shop told me I had to.

He laughed and sent me on my way.

i know this is a little different than you situation with a vortec but I still think it depends on the Ref and the county.

 

[TemboTusk]

It may matter by the county in California. I think alot of it has to do with the ref though. I went to a ref in Porterville and he flunked my Mopar Fuel injection conversion on my CJ-8. I had the wrong hose on my PVC line so he flunked me. It had writing on it and he said PVC hoses were not suppose to have writting on them.

My next inspection was at College of the Seqouias in Visalia. He popped the hood looked at it and closed the hood. He never even used the hood rod. He asked me why I was having a ref look at it. I told him taht I though I was suppose too and that the guy at the emmission shop told me I had to.

He laughed and sent me on my way.

i know this is a little different than you situation with a vortec but I still think it depends on the Ref and the county.

You are right . There are some counties such as Imperial County near the Mexican border that don't require any smog checks. If you are not doing a change of ownership or transferring from out of state, you can reregister the vehicle in one of those counties to get around the Ref issues. It is a bit more hassle but, it is doable.

 

[jb welda]

>There was never a manual transmission offered behind a 350 tbi in California.
>The ref will not pass it. It must be an auto.

huh. thats strange because ive got one (a 350 throttle body injection motor that is) and it got reffed in sacto county and its all ok and has been for 4 or more years now. i suspect you got your facts wrong there...

in fact i think youve got it 180 degrees off...ive been told if the car youve got had an auto you need an auto and if the car youve got had a manual...well i forget exactly but the point is, the trans follows the car not the motor, maybe. at least i think thats how i remember it but i did hear some talk about the transmission mattering in some cases but unsure what exactly.

bottom line: i have a 85 fj60 with a 92 350 tbi (its a gmc motor actually or at least thats how its registered) with a toyota five speed and it passed the ref no problem (at least not any problems related to transmission) and is now a 92 gmc for smog purposes...says so right on the tag on the left side back door opening panel. and thats in one of the most tightly regulated counties in the state so its not a matter of not being a biannual smog check county.

by the way i dont think this is correct either:

> There are some counties such as Imperial County near the Mexican border
>that don't require any smog checks.

they dont require BIANNUAL smog checks but they do require a check when transferring ownership of a vehicle. all counties in cali require that, plus biannual checks in many or most counties. thats what i was alluding to above re: sierra county.

>If you are not doing a change of ownership or transferring from out of state,
>you can reregister the vehicle in one of those counties to get around the Ref >issues.

i dont think that is true; i know you can get around the biannual smog check, but you still have to have a check done on transfer of ownership (to you, by the seller) or initial cali registration.

(i think im repeating myself now)

one love
jah bill

 

[TemboTusk]

>There was never a manual transmission offered behind a 350 tbi in California.
>The ref will not pass it. It must be an auto.

huh. thats strange because ive got one (a 350 throttle body injection motor that is) and it got reffed in sacto county and its all ok and has been for 4 or more years now. i suspect you got your facts wrong there...

in fact i think youve got it 180 degrees off...ive been told if the car youve got had an auto you need an auto and if the car youve got had a manual...well i forget exactly but the point is, the trans follows the car not the motor, maybe. at least i think thats how i remember it but i did hear some talk about the transmission mattering in some cases but unsure what exactly.

bottom line: i have a 85 fj60 with a 92 350 tbi (its a gmc motor actually or at least thats how its registered) with a toyota five speed and it passed the ref no problem (at least not any problems related to transmission) and is now a 92 gmc for smog purposes...says so right on the tag on the left side back door opening panel. and thats in one of the most tightly regulated counties in the state so its not a matter of not being a biannual smog check county.

by the way i dont think this is correct either:

> There are some counties such as Imperial County near the Mexican border
>that don't require any smog checks.

they dont require BIANNUAL smog checks but they do require a check when transferring ownership of a vehicle. all counties in cali require that, plus biannual checks in many or most counties. thats what i was alluding to above re: sierra county.

>If you are not doing a change of ownership or transferring from out of state,
>you can reregister the vehicle in one of those counties to get around the Ref >issues.

i dont think that is true; i know you can get around the biannual smog check, but you still have to have a check done on transfer of ownership (to you, by the seller) or initial cali registration.

(i think im repeating myself now)

one love
jah bill

Hey Jb Welda,

I think you have confirmed most of what I said exempt the 180 degree part. If the donor vehicle came with an auto, you must use the auto. If the Ref chooses to ignore the fact, that’s great for you. The Ref I used did not. You do need to read what I wrote more slowly such as the change of ownership part.

 

[jb welda]

yep youre right i must not have read this slow enough:

>There was never a manual transmission offered behind a 350 tbi in California. >The ref will not pass it. It must be an auto.

one love
jah bill

 

[cando john]

i don't know about other state emission regs but here in my state on the east coast if you drive under 5000 miles your exempt...ok so just keep two differnt gauge clusters.... keep your "real one under 5000 and use the spare the rest of the year ...think how hard is it to swap out four screws a couple wire plugs ...speedo cable .. your rolling ....... just my thought.

 

[TemboTusk]

It’s hard for any one person to be completely right on state smog issues. Talk to one official, you get one answers. Talk to another and you get something different.

California leads the pack in nutty laws.

 

[jb welda]

i thought about this some more over the weekend and have one more comment:

>If the Ref chooses to ignore the fact

maybe we are talking about different things. maybe someone at a "smog station" will "ignore" violations but let me guarantee you one thing: smog *referees* will not. they are state employees. their greatest glee would be to tell you your rig doesnt pass and you have to junk it and buy a new clean burning car. so...if they pass it its because it is to the letter of the law. for sure. they have zero lattitude and zero tolerance and have no reason to "ignore" violations nor will they even get the chance to ignore violations because its their one job to do, unlike a mere smog check station. but you probably know that (and im being serious here)...but *maybe* where you are they let smog techs double as smog referees...but believe me, in sacramento county they sure do not.

anyway my informed guess remains: if your car came with an automatic, you may have problems switching to a manual trans and vice versa; but if the engine you are swapping in never was issued with a manual then i dont think thats an issue...the issue travels with the car the motor is going into.

but whoever said it is right: ask someone the same question twice and youre liable to get two answers...but probably not from the smog refs.

one love
jah bill

 

[TemboTusk]

Hey jb welda,

“… informed guess” I like that one!! I'll buy It!

I got my bad news straight from Sacramento. But, even the Ref did not know for sure until he conferred with Sacramento. The Ref that did my check was of course a state employee and he doubled as community college instructor.

If you can find proof that the engine/trans issue is vehicle dependent as opposed to donor dependent, I would be in your debt! I would rather have California plates!

I sure hope the original poster passed his smog! Good luck to you!

 

[MANUCHAO]

I sure hope the original poster passed his smog! Good luck to you!

He did....!!!
H55 mated to a Vortec..

See post #11.

 

[TemboTusk]

Next time I will use a Vortec!

 

[jb welda]

1967tlc you and i think a lot alike despite maybe diverging on this one issue; the thing is, you seem to have one experience and i seem to have a different one. now *maybe* a gmc came with a manual trans behind their 350 and chevy didnt but i think this may indeed come down to misinformation on the part of the ref you talked to. i think you *can* appeal the decision...maybe you could try that, because it *is* possible the ref you dealt with was misinformed, probably over the phone, probably during break or lunch (heh...im a state employee too as loathe as i may be to admit it sometimes). but the problem would be just what you point out: figuring out exactly where it says what and how to interpret that.

bottom line though: i did exactly what you did and was successful where you werent...the only difference is the personnel involved and/or the fact that my motor is officially a "GMC" and yours a chevy.

now i did just go out to google and attempted to search for some rules covering this but as you probably know, all i found was a bunch of gobbly gook and nothing specifically covering this situation...your (and my) tax dollars at work.

still i think i would attempt to appeal it first of all by contacting whoever refused your vehicle and asking them to cite chpt and verse on this "transmission following the swapped in engine" business.

im just glad mine went through without a hitch...maybe it was the "gmc" thing...

one more thing:

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/replace.htm

says, in part:

Engine Changes
Engine changes are legal as long as the following requirements are met to ensure that the change does not increase pollution from the vehicle:
The engine must be the same year or newer than the vehicle.

The engine must be from the same type of vehicle (passenger car, light-duty truck, heavy-duty truck, etc.) based on gross vehicle weight.

If the vehicle is a California certified vehicle then the engine must also be a California certified engine.

All emissions control equipment must remain on the installed engine.

After an engine change, vehicles must first be inspected by a state referee station. The vehicle will be inspected to ensure that all the equipment required is in place, and vehicle will be emissions tested subject to the specifications of the installed engine


Transmission or Transaxle
Transmissions and transaxles changes alone are not legal. Transmissions and transaxles can only be changed along with their matching engine. The total engine transmission package must conform to the engine change requirements above.

end quote

now you notice this leaves a lot open to intrepretation but the way i intrepret it is:

if you change a transmission, it must be a trans that came with the motor it is being hooked to...

if you change a motor, it must have all the equipment that came with the motor.

now i guess that could be intrepreted that if you change the motor but not the trans then the trans didnt come with the motor so its illegal but thats certainly not the way i would read it...seems to me if you change the motor and leave your trans as is its ok; if you change your trans it has to be hooked to a motor the trans originally came with.

but therein lies the rub: the intrepretation. reading that closely and thinking about it, im glad i nor no one mentioned that i had a toyota 5 speed swapped in because certainly the gmc 350 never came with that 5 speed (though i guess it could have come with *some* 5 speed).

what was the question again? oh yeah, how much does california suck? well no debate on that answer.

sorry for the long pointless dissertation but hope it helped somehow. i guess the bottom line is to get this arbitrated by the refs if you still want your truck registered in cali.

and a second bottom line is im glad i am over that particular hump and moving out of california asap...though im not sure utah is going to be any more forgiving on numerous issues.

one love
jah bill

 

[TemboTusk]

Jb welda,

The difference may lie in the GMC vs. Chevy. I know there are other brands of V8s that don’t have this issue. I may at some point try again to get it passed. At the time I was very anxious to get my truck rolling and there was no way I was going to install an automatic transmission in my 60.

There is nothing that feels better than a manual behind a V8! Turns a slug into a muscle car!