Why changing oil timely/frequently is good for your engine (1 Viewer)

[tominboise]

My apologies in advance if this is a stupid question.

Does anyone know how time sitting in storage effects oil life? When I say storage in this case I mean climate controlled indoor storage. For instance, say you change your oil then drive your LC a couple thousand miles in a couple months, then store the vehicle for 6 months. Does the time count if its not being used? Given the fact that it wasn’t put in storage right after the oil change, does that mean there is harmful byproducts in the oil, or does it mean that the oil is somehow breaking down over time?

I have always been skeptical of the oil change stickers and the expiration dates placed on them by oil change techs. My LC doesn’t have those stickers because I’m doing my own changes!

Generally speaking, most oil companies recommend changing the oil after 12 months if it's been in an engine. Some oil life monitors take time into account and will time out the oil, even if it's parked (my 2019 Corvette is this way). Some go on the amount of fuel consumed and don't track the time (my 2006 Chevy Duramax diesel is this way) and some go by miles only (my 2008 Landcruiser is this way).

I change the oil annually in my vehicles, unless it's been changed more frequently due to usage.

 

[bloc]

Climate controlled storage is a different thing. Since motor oil isn’t hygroscopic like brake fluid, most of the moisture that ends up in it while not running is due to condensed humidity brought in to the crank case from temperature changes throughout the day. If those temperature changes don’t really happen, or the air has much of the humidity removed, oil can go a very long time.

How long you are in to the interval matters too. Recently changed oil will have plenty of TBN to buffer combustion byproducts that have made their way into it. Oil a thousand miles out from your planned change will have less TBN in reserve to protect things while it sits.

Personally I’d have no issue letting a vehicle sit that long and it not really contribute to my oil change decisions, with the caveat of my last paragraph. The bigger issue is starting an engine that has had six months for all of the lubricant to end up back in the pan. Fortunately if it’s sitting this long, those starts can’t happen very many times.

 

[Hillbilly Deluxe]

I’m not watching some clown on YouTube. I’ll take my data from the 100’s of oil analysis done on bobistheoilguy. Do some light reading.

You have no idea about AMD. He's not "some clown". Unreal.

 

[Hillbilly Deluxe]

I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a 5.7 consuming oil. I’ll watch it for sure.

I had a 2011 Sequoia with a 5.7L, less than 100k miles and it was drinking 2+ quarts, more like 3, over a 7500 mile OCI. I bought it at 65k miles, it had a history of 10k mile oil changes before then. I don't own it anymore.


My 2014 Tundra, 5.7L, bought new, has had 10k, 7500 mile and now I'm doing 5k mile OCI. It was using 1-2 quarts when doing 10k mile OCI and Mobil-1. I now use Kirkland 0W-20 and 5k mile OCIs and it uses nearly zero oil.

 

[Hillbilly Deluxe]

Car Care Nut is a good youtuber and give very good recommendations. For a small 4 banger with little oil capacity - 5k/6month is justifiable. Even if something small with high compression and turbos I would say do it every 3-4K.

However, 3UR-FE is a low stress engine with huge oil capacity that can easily get away with 10K oil change intervals. But again, as all favorite Scotty is saying: “Oil is cheap, engines are expensive”. I am doing oil change once a year, that is around 6-8k miles. (Only because I hate dropping skids every 6 month)

Get a battery operated ratchet. It takes the headache and time out of removing the 27 bolts for the skid plates. Also - I use a 2 gallon bucket to catch the oil, it helps keep it off the front passenger wheel.

 

[linuxgod]

I had a 2011 Sequoia with a 5.7L, less than 100k miles and it was drinking 2+ quarts, more like 3, over a 7500 mile OCI. I bought it at 65k miles, it had a history of 10k mile oil changes before then. I don't own it anymore.


My 2014 Tundra, 5.7L, bought new, has had 10k, 7500 mile and now I'm doing 5k mile OCI. It was using 1-2 quarts when doing 10k mile OCI and Mobil-1. I now use Kirkland 0W-20 and 5k mile OCIs and it uses nearly zero oil.

Sounds like the symptoms of a bad PCV valve to me

 

[TR4RUNNER]

Get a battery operated ratchet. It takes the headache and time out of removing the 27 bolts for the skid plates. Also - I use a 2 gallon bucket to catch the oil, it helps keep it off the front passenger wheel.

Wish I had read this prior to last weekends oil change. I will be getting a dedicated 2gal bucket for,oil changes. Did my first oil,change on my LX and I made huge mess. Especially on the passenger wheel. Nothing that a bag of oil dry couldn’t handle.

And I am a big fan of AMD and his car care nut channel. Super informative for any Toyota owners.

 

[Hillbilly Deluxe]

Sounds like the symptoms of a bad PCV valve to me

Yeah, that was it. A whopping $14 part. Guess what? I changed it and there was no difference. So there goes that theory of 2-3 quarts of oil being sucked through the PCV valve. Sorry, but that excuse/reason is worn out and tired. I doubt 100 PCV valves are replaced a year on 5.7L engines in the US....

 

[Hillbilly Deluxe]

Wish I had read this prior to last weekends oil change. I will be getting a dedicated 2gal bucket for,oil changes. Did my first oil,change on my LX and I made huge mess. Especially on the passenger wheel. Nothing that a bag of oil dry couldn’t handle.

And I am a big fan of AMD and his car care nut channel. Super informative for any Toyota owners.

Well there's nothing like learning from your experience. The next best thing is learning from other people.

Another tip - and the 2 gallon bucket helps due to it's weight- hold it up to catch the oil when you first take the plug out until it "calms down" some...

You can buy the 2-gallon buckets at Lowes, HD, Sherwin-Williams, other hardware stores, etc.

 

[tacoduck]

You have no idea about AMD. He's not "some clown". Unreal.

Correction. I’m not going to watch clowns on YouTube, and I’m not going to take advice from someone named “hillbilly deluxe”.

Add that to “never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; and never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body.”

 

[tacoduck]

Some further insights around the same.

So a guy drives a car for 8 years and 180k miles, and then it starts to consume oil. Sounds like it met the initial design perimeters and had a long useful life.

Now, what’s the expected life on 200 land cruiser engine? It’s been stated, 250k miles, or 20 years, in a 3rd world country. Do you think a Camry is built different than a LC? I do. My .02.

 

[bloc]

You have no idea about AMD. He's not "some clown". Unreal.

I don’t trust anyone with a shop that clean.

But seriously. He seems like a high level tech, but he’s making serious generalizations. Whether a vehicle requires synthetic is a HUGE factor in oil life.. was it required in that year Camry?

Tacoducks reference to bobistbeoilguy is actual data, about different oils run in our engines, analyzed by labs that do this for a living. Not just someone talking on YouTube. There is a ton of data to support 10k OCIs on the 3UR-FE being perfectly fine. What was happening in that Camry engine would have easily shown up in used oil analysis as a sign to investigate further.

 

[linuxgod]

Yeah, that was it. A whopping $14 part. Guess what? I changed it and there was no difference. So there goes that theory of 2-3 quarts of oil being sucked through the PCV valve. Sorry, but that excuse/reason is worn out and tired. I doubt 100 PCV valves are replaced a year on 5.7L engines in the US....

I’ve seen enough people on this forum who swapped their PCV and it did help with oil consumption that the $14 part is the first thing I’d try. Oil consumption is very much a symptom of bad PCV valve, but a sticking PCV valve is not the only failure that causes oil consumption.

 

[toy671]

I wanted to share my experience as I see a lot on this topic and feel free to take it with a grain of salt as I have no scientific backing behind it. I bought my 2013 with 48k miles in 2015 and I noticed a lot of oil consumption a few months into ownership and I would refill the oil constantly. I changed the PCV valve as I consider this a routine maintenance item but it was fine when I pulled it out and the valve shook freely, no change in oil consumption. I went a year or so constantly filling up oil but it was strange as the consumption was not constant and I could not determine when or how the oil was consumed. If it were a leak, I would expect it to be needing 1 quart every 2 weeks, etc.... I observed that it would go a month without needing more oil in some cases in others it was 2 weeks.

I then came across a video talking about the Toyota pistons on a Camry having issues with the rings due to clogged oil ports and a light bulb went off. I decided I would change the oil and change it again to see how clean it was after driving around the neighborhood.... well it came out black. Then I did another one and another one - I probably did 5 oil changes in total that were a day to a week apart until things looked good. After doing this, I have no noticeable oil consumption. Seafoam or diesel would probably be more effective but I hate the idea of adding it into the mix. Relatively speaking, oil changes are cheap compared to a new motor, I chose the route of doing so more often than not, it does not hurt the motor to change it often, only a hit to the wallet.

 

[bloc]

That Camry wouldn’t have had intermittent oil consumption due to the damage in the cylinder wall. And no amount of rapid oil changes would unstick the rings.. POSSIBLY seafoam or high-detergent synthetic run for a while.

 

[toy671]

That Camry wouldn’t have had intermittent oil consumption due to the damage in the cylinder wall. And no amount of rapid oil changes would unstick the rings.. POSSIBLY seafoam or high-detergent synthetic run for a while.

There is no damage to the cylinder walls, the oil passages on the rings clog and it burns more oil as it has no way to get back into the crankcase. Like I mention, no real evidence to back my case, I was just sharing my experience.

 

[2021 LC200]

I wanted to share my experience as I see a lot on this topic and feel free to take it with a grain of salt as I have no scientific backing behind it. I bought my 2013 with 48k miles in 2015 and I noticed a lot of oil consumption a few months into ownership and I would refill the oil constantly. I changed the PCV valve as I consider this a routine maintenance item but it was fine when I pulled it out and the valve shook freely, no change in oil consumption. I went a year or so constantly filling up oil but it was strange as the consumption was not constant and I could not determine when or how the oil was consumed. If it were a leak, I would expect it to be needing 1 quart every 2 weeks, etc.... I observed that it would go a month without needing more oil in some cases in others it was 2 weeks.

I then came across a video talking about the Toyota pistons on a Camry having issues with the rings due to clogged oil ports and a light bulb went off. I decided I would change the oil and change it again to see how clean it was after driving around the neighborhood.... well it came out black. Then I did another one and another one - I probably did 5 oil changes in total that were a day to a week apart until things looked good. After doing this, I have no noticeable oil consumption. Seafoam or diesel would probably be more effective but I hate the idea of adding it into the mix. Relatively speaking, oil changes are cheap compared to a new motor, I chose the route of doing so more often than not, it does not hurt the motor to change it often, only a hit to the wallet.

Thanks for sharing Toy671. Adds up to what AMD is pointing out.

I must say I have been skeptical about more frequent oil changes (i.e. 5k or 7k vs 10k), until I saw the explanation presented in his you tube videos. I also can see that oil analysis is interesting info, however it appears to me a lagging indicator. Once signs of wear appear from the sample collected, the piston oil ring and/or any jets spraying oil against the piston could already be stuck or plugged and additional wear is already starting to happen. Resolving this problem with an engine flush or multiple oil changes may do the trick, however engine flush chemistry can be detrimental to the various seals and properly freeing the piston oil rings or unplugging these jets may be quite difficult without opening up the engine.

Does any mudder know whether the 3UR-FE has these oil jets spraying against the piston bottom? That certainly would make the situation more (3UR-FE does have jets) or less critical.

All in all I am going to keep my intervals at 5k (and by exception on long road trips let it go to 7 or 8k) and after warranty switch to synthetic 0W30 or 5w30 (per Toyota's recommendation for the rest of the world), as my objective is trouble free miles up to 300 to 400k miles.

 

[2021 LC200]

Further to these oil jets spraying against the pistons;

This link and description suggest the 3UR-FE does have these oil jets as well. Once plugged things will go downhill no doubt;

Toyota 3UR-FE – Engine Specs

www.engine-specs.net

"The 3UR-FE engine used forged connecting rods with resin-coated aluminum bearings. Pistons are made of high temperature-resistant aluminum alloy and they are cooled by four oil jets in the cylinder block. Piston pins are the full-floating type. The Toyota 3UR-FE motor has two compression and one oil control rings."

A further search and 3UR-FE Engine descriptions shows the same. Good to know how our 3UR-FE works.

 

[TeCKis300]

If there's generalizations going on here, it's anecdotes about how OCIs can be longer. Even if it's supported by single snapshots data.

Who's to say everyone uses their cars in the same way? Are in the same life/wear interval of their motor? Motor is in equal state of health or repair. Or wouldn't become a contributor to longer term issue. Those are some huge assumptions.

There's reasons to change oil more frequently if only to inspect, catch or accommodate issues or emergent issues. An oil change can be cheaper than a single fill of gas these days.

 

[Hillbilly Deluxe]

There's reasons to change oil more frequently if only to inspect, catch or accommodate issues or emergent issues. An oil change can be cheaper than a single fill of gas these days.

Agree 100%. IMO, maintaining your own vehicles goes a very, very long way in helping those vehicles stay running trouble-free for as long as possible. Some might not care, some/many people are raised to feel like a car payment is something natural in life. Once you get rid of car payments and once you realize that it's not a bad thing to keep a vehicle 10,, 20+ years and 300k miles is very much achievable with most any Toyota, you also start figuring out that maintaining your vehicles is easy and helps you spot problems.

It's just like the debate over a transmission service. Lazy/uninformed people will argue that just draining the pan and refilling is good enough/proper. But they clam up and get all deer-in-the-headlights look when you ask them if they were able to clean the pan out, clean the magnets, ask them how much metal filings were on the magnets and if there were any large pieces of metal in the pan? Nope, you can't check all that if you don't take the pan off.

And I can change the oil in my 5.7Ls MUCH cheaper today than filling up. I'm at about $34 for an oil change using an OEM filter/crush washer and 0W-20 oil.