Why are torsion bars so vilified? And were Land Cruisers ever designed for recreational off-roading?

[Bisho]

Through the years, I've driven most all of the technical trails in the Ozarks. Not once did I wish I had a SAS.

On the ride home I was thankful I had a comfortable IFS ride.

I would go test drive at least three 100 series to get a feel for the platform. They all drive a little different, so don't judge the entire series by one experience. Note that I hang up on the rear 3rd member way more than the diff drop.

View attachment 3504588

Man, I think I remember stacking rocks on that trail.

Craig, you need to update your signature block and let the 99 RIP!

 

[OwnerCS]

Man, I think I remember stacking rocks on that trail.

Craig, you need to update your signature block and let the 99 RIP!

Yep. That's the rocky ledge. Driven it both ways. Will update profile.

 

[Roosevelt T]

I think people need to be careful with nomenclature/definitions.

While the 100s has torsion bars, the front suspension limitations rest squarely with the wishbone IFS design. The T-bars are simply springs, and in fact have some packaging and adjustability advantages over coils. But for a fair comparison, we'd be comparing a coil sprung IFS to a T-bar IFS, or a leaf sprung solid axle to a coil sprung solid axle (60 series Vs 80 series).

Saying the "torsion bar front end is crap" misses the point entirely. If the 100s had coils, there wouldn't be a lot of difference.

But you could customize spring rate much easier with a coil, which would certainly be a benefit when modifying a vehicle. I dont think there's any packaging upside in a platform like we are discussing here (unlike in an F1 car, which also uses a torsion bar), but correct me if I am wrong.

 

[medtro]

I'll admit I was thinking more about how am I going to get out of this and not have to go out a window than if my ATRAC light was flashing.

Sunroof.

 

[Bisho]

Sunroof.

That also crossed my mind...and the fact my recovery gear was all the way in the back of the truck...luckily when I lost forward momentum, a quick prayer for traction and I got it in reverse.

My wife was frantically trying to close the sunroof as mud was flying in!

 

[saucebox]

But you could customize spring rate much easier with a coil, which would certainly be a benefit when modifying a vehicle. I dont think there's any packaging upside in a platform like we are discussing here (unlike in an F1 car, which also uses a torsion bar), but correct me if I am wrong.

Hundred percent this—tons of opportunities to customize to a specific setup, and lots of shock options to eat up the bumps. My ride is not appreciably worse in town (of course, I did have an OME IFS setup) but it's a million times better in the rocks, in the sand, you name it. The torsion bar setups can buy the exact same dual-reservoir shocks IIRC, but you're still stuck with the one or two spring rates.

Couldn't tell you much about mud. I just don't see very much of it. I know this wandered into lockers vs ATRAC territory for a while...just get both .

OP: on paper, the torsion bar setup looks kind of lame. Looks are deceiving though—they'll take you way further than you imagined they could. And these trucks last long enough that you can change them up/grow them as needed.

 

[Patassa]

I know this wandered into lockers vs ATRAC territory for a while...just get both .

Agreed, honestly not that expensive of an upgrade when people are buying over 4k bumpers.

 

[uHu]

But you could customize spring rate much easier with a coil, which would certainly be a benefit when modifying a vehicle. I dont think there's any packaging upside in a platform like we are discussing here (unlike in an F1 car, which also uses a torsion bar), but correct me if I am wrong.

Hundred percent this—tons of opportunities to customize to a specific setup, and lots of shock options to eat up the bumps. My ride is not appreciably worse in town (of course, I did have an OME IFS setup) but it's a million times better in the rocks, in the sand, you name it. The torsion bar setups can buy the exact same dual-reservoir shocks IIRC, but you're still stuck with the one or two spring rates.....

And in comes:
AHC - endless springrate adjustments, even twice within the same stroke . Heard about it?
OK. OK. I'll stop

 

[SaturnAscends]

I found a decent deal on an LX470 - is it true the 98-99 Lexuses didn't have rear lockers or any form of traction aid? I suppose this would make them the "poor sisters" of the 100 series, at least from an off-road perspective.

At least the Lexus actually got a cabin air filter.

 

[Bisho]

I found a decent deal on an LX470 - is it true the 98-99 Lexuses didn't have rear lockers or any form of traction aid? I suppose this would make them the "poor sisters" of the 100 series, at least from an off-road perspective.

At least the Lexus actually got a cabin air filter.

View attachment 3505435

98-99 LX should have a limited slip differential. That's it. No ATRAC or traction control.

 

[SaturnAscends]

98-99 LX should have a limited slip differential. That's it. No ATRAC or traction control.

Hm, who knows if it'd still be working at this point. I wonder why they didn't have the rear locker option. Almost every 98-99 LC I've seen has one.

Would the non-locked 98-99 LCs have an LSD as well?

 

[Bisho]

Hm, who knows if it'd still be working at this point. I wonder why they didn't have the rear locker option. Almost every 98-99 LC I've seen has one.

Would the non-locked 98-99 LCs have an LSD as well?

Not from the factory in the US.

 

[beatle_bayly]

Hundred percent this—tons of opportunities to customize to a specific setup, and lots of shock options to eat up the bumps. My ride is not appreciably worse in town (of course, I did have an OME IFS setup) but it's a million times better in the rocks, in the sand, you name it. The torsion bar setups can buy the exact same dual-reservoir shocks IIRC, but you're still stuck with the one or two spring rates.

Sure, but the lack of availability of aftermarket torsion bar options has nothing to do with the design of the suspension system.

 

[saucebox]

Sure, but the lack of availability of aftermarket torsion bar options has nothing to do with the design of the suspension system.

Fair point

 

[Trunk Monkey]

May want to spend some time on the Slee 100 buyer's guide, linked in the FAQ, so you know what years have what options.

 

[SaturnAscends]

I feel an 80 or GX might serve you better.

Honestly throw a rear locker in the Tacoma and sand bags and you’ll do better in mud than a 100….

Why would an 80 or GX be better in mud or slick clay, etc.? The GX is a bit lighter but I've heard stories of blown rear diffs. I've also seen sold front axles create more friction in mud.

 

[GTV]

Hm, who knows if it'd still be working at this point. I wonder why they didn't have the rear locker option. Almost every 98-99 LC I've seen has one.

Would the non-locked 98-99 LCs have an LSD as well?

Because Lexus buyers generally weren’t the ones taking these things off road.

No, rear diff was was open with the option of a locker.

 

[Comet]

My 1999 has a rear e-locker stock. It works amazingly well, better than I can drive.

 

[krice118]

Why would an 80 or GX be better in mud or slick clay, etc.? The GX is a bit lighter but I've heard stories of blown rear diffs. I've also seen sold front axles create more friction in mud.

Lighter weight and narrower for tighter trails

 

[peneumbra2]

I feel an 80 or GX might serve you better.

Honestly throw a rear locker in the Tacoma and sand bags and you’ll do better in mud than a 100….

And if you make the girlfriend ride in the pickup bed - along with the dog - you'll have all that extra weight back there!