Why are torsion bars so vilified? And were Land Cruisers ever designed for recreational off-roading?

[SaturnAscends]

Lighter weight and narrower for tighter trails

I think a lot about long term abuse too though. I have the opportunity to do a nine-month 4x4/backcountry internship in the Maze section of Canyonlands National Park in a remote ranger station near Cleopatra’s chair. I’d feel better about the 100 series holding up to prolonged washboard roads compared to the Tacoma with its LBJs and relatively weak axles.

 

[saucebox]

I think a lot about long term abuse too though. I have the opportunity to do a nine-month 4x4/backcountry internship in the Maze section of Canyonlands National Park in a remote ranger station near Cleopatra’s chair. I’d feel better about the 100 series holding up to prolonged washboard roads compared to the Tacoma with its LBJs and relatively weak axles.

Get tough tires, air down, and send it. Sounds like a killer opportunity.

 

[OwnerCS]

I found a decent deal on an LX470 - is it true the 98-99 Lexuses didn't have rear lockers or any form of traction aid? I suppose this would make them the "poor sisters" of the 100 series, at least from an off-road perspective.

At least the Lexus actually got a cabin air filter.

View attachment 3505435

The rear LSD still worked on my 99 LX. I like the simplicity of it and will move it to the LC. It reminds me of the old GM 12-bolt posi traction rear ends from muscle car days. If you look at the bottom door cards on the LX, there is an additional seal. I found that the seal helps to keep water out during my deep water crossings.

Also, the retractable mirrors on the LX are a godsend on narrow Ozarks trails.

I added an eLocker to upgrade to 4-pinion on my 99 model.

 

[SaturnAscends]

The rear LSD still worked on my 99 LX. I like the simplicity of it and will move it to the LC. It reminds me of the old GM 12-bolt posi traction rear ends from muscle car days. If you look at the bottom door cards on the LX, there is an additional seal. I found that the seal helps to keep water out during my deep water crossings.

View attachment 3505841
Also, the retractable mirrors on the LX are a godsend on narrow Ozarks trails.

View attachment 3505847

I added an eLocker to upgrade to 4-pinion on my 99 model.

Apparently the one above has been sitting for a while, even though it has 305,000 miles. I'm not sure ho these cope with not being driven for a while. Usually that's a recipe for issues.

 

[OwnerCS]

Apparently the one above has been sitting for a while, even though it has 305,000 miles. I'm not sure ho these cope with not being driven for a while. Usually that's a recipe for issues.

True. There must be some underlying reason. When I look at buying a high-mileage older vehicle, there is the purchase price and the many thousands of dollars that I will put into building it. Like a new rack, suspension, bearings, drive shaft, brakes, gaskets, seals, and on. If I can get a good-looking body and interior, then I know I'll be replacing a lot of other components.

If the one in Tulsa is drivable, it would be worth a trip to just get the experience of driving a good or bad one. I recommend driving three in various conditions to get a feel for the platform.

 

[jLB]

I found a decent deal on an LX470 - is it true the 98-99 Lexuses didn't have rear lockers or any form of traction aid? I suppose this would make them the "poor sisters" of the 100 series, at least from an off-road perspective.

If I understand correctly, if you find a LHD LX470 with a locker, it’s either Canadian market, or a retrofit.

Well except for the fact that the 98-99 LX, without a locker, came with a clutch based rear LSD, where the 98-99 LC, without a locker, was an open differential.

Hm, who knows if it'd still be working at this point. I wonder why they didn't have the rear locker option. Almost every 98-99 LC I've seen has one.

Would the non-locked 98-99 LCs have an LSD as well?

Mine was functioning properly, in a 20+ year old vehicle, with 250+mi.

Not in the US market.

The rear LSD still worked on my 99 LX. I like the simplicity of it and will move it to the LC. It reminds me of the old GM 12-bolt posi traction rear ends from muscle car days.

Agreed. Although even fully operational, it has the same limitation of any LSD. If one side has zero traction (lifted wheel), all of the power is sent to that side. You can try “braking games” (or if you have ATRAC) to give the “free wheel” some artificial traction to redirect torque to the side with traction.

This was the main reason that the LSD was swapped for a Harrop/Eaton in the rear of my 99 LX. I was willing to fiddle with the brakes, but my adult son just wanted to apply more “skinny pedal”, which was eventually going to break things. A number of people have also swapped complete rear axles, from a OE locked vehicle, I couldn’t find a deal where this financially made sense for me.

The ultimate in my mind, would be lockers+ATRAC, but ATRAC is usually good enough to avoid the need for lockers in most cases. The combination of LSD+ATRAC might offer some minor improvement over ATRAC alone. I was always curious about doing a triple Torsen, with ATRAC, in a 4th gen 4Runner/GX, unfortunately the 100 series has open/locked center diff.

 

[SaturnAscends]

If I understand correctly, if you find a LHD LX470 with a locker, it’s either Canadian market, or a retrofit.

Well except for the fact that the 98-99 LX, without a locker, came with a clutch based rear LSD, where the 98-99 LC, without a locker, was an open differential.



Mine was functioning properly, in a 20+ year old vehicle, with 250+mi.

Not in the US market.



Agreed. Although even fully operational, it has the same limitation of any LSD. If one side has zero traction (lifted wheel), all of the power is sent to that side. You can try “braking games” (or if you have ATRAC) to give the “free wheel” some artificial traction to redirect torque to the side with traction.

This was the main reason that the LSD was swapped for a Harrop/Eaton in the rear of my 99 LX. I was willing to fiddle with the brakes, but my adult son just wanted to apply more “skinny pedal”, which was eventually going to break things. A number of people have also swapped complete rear axles, from a OE locked vehicle, I couldn’t find a deal where this financially made sense for me.

The ultimate in my mind, would be lockers+ATRAC, but ATRAC is usually good enough to avoid the need for lockers in most cases. The combination of LSD+ATRAC might offer some minor improvement over ATRAC alone. I was always curious about doing a triple Torsen, with ATRAC, in a 4th gen 4Runner/GX, unfortunately the 100 series has open/locked center diff.

Come to think of it, why were so many 98-99s optioned with a locker, when they were so rare on the 93-97s?

Also, are heavy bumpers and armour necessary for a 100 series to do more difficult trails (short of buggy stuff)? I usually try to keep things light - skinny 33” MTs and a mild 1” lift, for instance.

 

[Bisho]

Come to think of it, why were so many 98-99s optioned with a locker, when they were so rare on the 93-97s?

Also, are heavy bumpers and armour necessary for a 100 series to do more difficult trails (short of buggy stuff)? I usually try to keep things light - skinny 33” MTs and a mild 1” lift, for instance.

I have used my front bumper to nudge small trees aside on narrow bypass trails, but it’s mostly there for the Bull bar and winch. The Bull bar for the plentiful deer in my area.

The rear bumper was the last major thing I added to the truck and I wanted it for three reasons. 1. Rear quarter protection hoops (again, narrow trails) 2. More clearance 3. Spare access and jack storage. None of those are must haves, but I do enjoy using my truck a lot on remote trails, so it was worth the money in the end.

Eventually I may talk myself into adding a fuel tank where the spare was, so one day that may be the fourth reason.

 

[SaturnAscends]

I have used my front bumper to nudge small trees aside on narrow bypass trails, but it’s mostly there for the Bull bar and winch. The Bull bar for the plentiful deer in my area.

The rear bumper was the last major thing I added to the truck and I wanted it for three reasons. 1. Rear quarter protection hoops (again, narrow trails) 2. More clearance 3. Spare access and jack storage. None of those are must haves, but I do enjoy using my truck a lot on remote trails, so it was worth the money in the end.

Eventually I may talk myself into adding a fuel tank where the spare was, so one day that may be the fourth reason.

Fair enough, I just wonder how much I could do with just a small lift and muddies. I suppose they are fairly low and long for serious trails though.

 

[Bisho]

Fair enough, I just wonder how much I could do with just a small lift and muddies. I suppose they are fairly low and long for serious trails though.

I think you can do quite fine stock. At some point you may find the point where you don’t, and you can spend the money then.

 

[Patassa]

I think a lot about long term abuse too though. I have the opportunity to do a nine-month 4x4/backcountry internship in the Maze section of Canyonlands National Park in a remote ranger station near Cleopatra’s chair. I’d feel better about the 100 series holding up to prolonged washboard roads compared to the Tacoma with its LBJs and relatively weak axles.

If I understand correctly, if you find a LHD LX470 with a locker, it’s either Canadian market, or a retrofit.

Well except for the fact that the 98-99 LX, without a locker, came with a clutch based rear LSD, where the 98-99 LC, without a locker, was an open differential.



Mine was functioning properly, in a 20+ year old vehicle, with 250+mi.

Not in the US market.



Agreed. Although even fully operational, it has the same limitation of any LSD. If one side has zero traction (lifted wheel), all of the power is sent to that side. You can try “braking games” (or if you have ATRAC) to give the “free wheel” some artificial traction to redirect torque to the side with traction.

This was the main reason that the LSD was swapped for a Harrop/Eaton in the rear of my 99 LX. I was willing to fiddle with the brakes, but my adult son just wanted to apply more “skinny pedal”, which was eventually going to break things. A number of people have also swapped complete rear axles, from a OE locked vehicle, I couldn’t find a deal where this financially made sense for me.

The ultimate in my mind, would be lockers+ATRAC, but ATRAC is usually good enough to avoid the need for lockers in most cases. The combination of LSD+ATRAC might offer some minor improvement over ATRAC alone. I was always curious about doing a triple Torsen, with ATRAC, in a 4th gen 4Runner/GX, unfortunately the 100 series has open/locked center diff.

Lockers + a-trac is the answer. Ask me how I know

 

[jLB]

Lockers + a-trac is the answer. Ask me how I know

I’m not retrofitting ATRAC in my 99, and haven’t felt the need for lockers in our 00, or 06, yet.

 

[jLB]

Come to think of it, why were so many 98-99s optioned with a locker, when they were so rare on the 93-97s?

Also, are heavy bumpers and armour necessary for a 100 series to do more difficult trails (short of buggy stuff)? I usually try to keep things light - skinny 33” MTs and a mild 1” lift, for instance.

I have no idea.

As someone that was an original owner of an 80 series, that was “fully built” before use, and an original owner of a 100 series, that has been upgraded as the need arises, I would recommend the later.

That would depend on your idea of difficult trail…

 

[Patassa]

I’m not retrofitting ATRAC in my 99, and haven’t felt the need for lockers in our 00, or 06, yet.

You have to FIND a need for lockers. They don't just present themselves. Must. Justify. The. Purchase.

 

[SaturnAscends]

I'm currently in talks to trade my Tacoma for this beautiful 98. The owner seems like very trustworthy, and he’s put a lot of blood sweat and tears into the baseline. I think my earlier concerns about the front diff are unfounded as long as I don’t try to take it on buggy tails and hammer the throttle - these are more like expedition vehicles than hardcore wheelers, which suits my needs nicely. In my opinion, the 100 series and UZ engine are Toyota’s finest hour.

 

[OwnerCS]

I'm currently in talks to trade my Tacoma for this beautiful 98. The owner seems like very trustworthy, and he’s put a lot of blood sweat and tears into the baseline. I think my earlier concerns about the front diff are unfounded as long as I don’t try to take it on buggy tails and hammer the throttle - these are more like expedition vehicles than hardcore wheelers, which suits my needs nicely. In my opinion, the 100 series and UZ engine are Toyota’s finest hour.
View attachment 3519809

It looks nice. The color might be the same Tacoma color I used on the LX470 cladding. If the owner had done all of the baselining (like heater Ts) timing belt and water pump, you should be in for a nice dependable ride. Sure some incidental things are going to happen. But they happen with newer vehicles costing 2x or 3x more than this one. I like the three-knob HVAC controls in this year. I will be converting my 02 models digital and GPS console to using the 99 model HVAC controls and conventional head unit.