Who makes the Rock/Frame sliders ?

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overhanger,
nothing against you, but you are totaly wrong.
what makes you think the way i gusset my outriggers is inferior(sp) to christos?
have you even seen them? or only in the pics?
next time you go to a r/s meeting, why dont you check them out,there's prolly two or three sets in the parking lot.
yes, i've changed the design, only to be stronger.
yes, i've meet shristo once,very nice guy.
i'm not bashing the quality of his product,just the price.
and IMHO powder coating is a waste of everyones $$. if you're really gonna be grinding off rocks and stuff.
and if i paid someone else to make my sliders, i'd prolly charge more to.

are you saying that a gusset on top of the outrigger is stronger than a gusset below?
can you tell me that c-channel outriggers are stronger than boxed steel outriggers?
do these look familiar?https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=90472
the only benifit i see that c-channel has, is it makes it easier to build and mount.

1/4" plates and gussets, no 3/16"s here.
and i'm very confident that none of my welds have EVER pulled apart.
anyone want to comment on this?

not going to moab, but anyone is always welcome to come down to my house and visit.:D

i do this all on my own, i dont outsource anything that is part of my product.


qoute:He did all of the engineering and did so without having someone else's product to copy.
i take it that you think i've copied someones design...WRONG! better think again sir.

quote #2:I was going to comment earlier in this thread that your sliders look very similar to Christo's design with one small difference that I see as a weakness in your design, especially when compared to Christo's offering. No, it isn't the lack of finish and I have to say that powdercoating and very nice welds do make a difference to me but probably not all 60 owners. Your product appears to be worth the $$ you are asking and is priced accordingly when compared to a finished product like Slee's. I guess my venting is about how, with your above post, you are disrespecting a vendor who has done some great work for the Cruiser community for your own benefit.

what is the weakness? please elaborate.

look around pal, alot of sliders look the same.


i was'nt disrespecting christo at all, but when you have to pay to have your own product built, you have to charge more.

i build my product.

so am i wrong to design and build 80 series sliders that will be far superior to any name brands out there and sell them at a resonable price without the fancy:princess: finish on them.so those who cant afford the high dollar name brand products.(me included thats why i started to build my oun stuff)

have a great day!!!!
 
2badfjs said:
i'm not bashing the quality of his product,just the price.
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I guess I can step in here as well. I am not going to get into quality of product, design etc etc. I just have a couple of comments.


Yes, there is a price difference. We can not possibly make all our products in house. That is not the business model we chose. Yes, our products are more expensive, but I have posted the reasons for this a lot on mud. There is a lot of difference in keeping a brick and mortar business open vs a home operation. It is still up to the consumer to choose what he wants to order and where he wants to buy from.

and IMHO powder coating is a waste of everyones $$. if you're really gonna be grinding off rocks and stuff.[/quote[

That is a personal prefference. We choose to supply our products ready to bolt on, no work required on the customers part.


are you saying that a gusset on top of the outrigger is stronger than a gusset below?
can you tell me that c-channel outriggers are stronger than boxed steel outriggers?
do these look familiar?https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=90472
the only benifit i see that c-channel has, is it makes it easier to build and mount.
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Yes, there are advantages to using formed C Channel. However I would venture to say that the gusset you have would have bent the same way, if put in the same sitaution.

i was'nt disrespecting christo at all, but when you have to pay to have your own product built, you have to charge more.

i build my product.
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Again, I do not believe the outsourcing is the reason the prices differ. It is the total cost of running a shop. Warehouse space, workman's comp, product liability insurance, etc etc.

so am i wrong to design and build 80 series sliders that will be far superior to any name brands out there and sell them at a resonable price without the fancy:princess: finish on them.
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No, there is a place for everyone on the market. However just knocking our product because it is expensive is not the way to go about it.

Once has to compare apples to apples when comparing price. Count the time plus cost to finish them and add that value as well. I did paint my initial sliders when I made them. I can guarantee you that unless you repaint every couple of months they will rust. Unless you prepp them properly. Which takes time ($'s)

so those who cant afford the high dollar name brand products.(me included thats why i started to build my oun stuff)
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I agree, that is how I started as well. But the realities of a shop is different. If you compare any shop bought sliders of the same quality, you will find they are around the same price.

Now we have to go and pack for Moab.

have a great day!!!!
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sleeoffroad said:
I guess I can step in here as well. I am not going to get into quality of product, design etc etc. I just have a couple of comments.


Anyone can see from Slees website, that you guys do a great job supporting the 80 and 100 series guys. I don't see the same love toward the 60 wagons, so if you guys are going to puff your feather in the 60 section, at least back it up with some product. Two discontinued / out of stock items for the 60 don't help us any, how about a front bumper? we are sorely in need for a choice of front bumpers
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christo....
i got no beef with ya.
and i appologize if i offended you and your biz.

you do have a great product, dont get me wrong.
and i do understand how a proffit margin works as far as the biz side of things.

overhanger, you got anything else?
 
We are not puffing out feathers. Yes, we have discontinued the 60 sliders. It did not sell well, I guess based on price. So why pursure it further.

As for the rear bumper, we make them in limited quantities for some people the preffer our product.

I do not see us doing a front bumper. We will run into the same situation as the rear. To build a quality product takes a certain amount of money. Doesn't mattter if it is for a 60/80 or 100. The bottom line is the demographics of the owners of these vehicles differ a lot and the higher the cost of the vehicle, the more people spend on accessories, so they can afford the higher quality/ higher prices produdts. Basic fact.

I can recall there being threads in here about people soliciting input on making front bumpers. The feedback given was good, however people expect to get a lot for very little $'s.

I can also recall that Jim's sliders were a lot cheaper in the beginning than now.
 
sleeoffroad said:
We are not puffing out feathers. Yes, we have discontinued the 60 sliders. It did not sell well, I guess based on price. So why pursure it further.

As for the rear bumper, we make them in limited quantities for some people the preffer our product.

I do not see us doing a front bumper. We will run into the same situation as the rear. To build a quality product takes a certain amount of money. Doesn't mattter if it is for a 60/80 or 100. The bottom line is the demographics of the owners of these vehicles differ a lot and the higher the cost of the vehicle, the more people spend on accessories, so they can afford the higher quality/ higher prices produdts. Basic fact.

I can recall there being threads in here about people soliciting input on making front bumpers. The feedback given was good, however people expect to get a lot for very little $'s.

I can also recall that Jim's sliders were a lot cheaper in the beginning than now.
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i noticed that also
 
q:I can also recall that Jim's sliders were a lot cheaper in the beginning than now.

you got that right, i was loosing my ass when i first started :eek:
i was pretty mush selling them with no labor (thats smart......not)

then i had someone show me what it really cost ;)

have a blast in moab guys......wish i was goin :frown:
 
2badfjs said:
christo....
i got no beef with ya.
and i appologize if i offended you and your biz.

you do have a great product, dont get me wrong.
and i do understand how a proffit margin works as far as the biz side of things.

overhanger, you got anything else?
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Yes, I do. I talked to a structural engineer at work this morning about the different locations of the gusseting in question and was told that the method you employ is as strong as Slee's IF the welds all hold up on yours. As you humbly claim to make a superior product to any name brand slider, I can only guess that it will never be a problem. Please don't forget that I have directed buying customers your way. Not that you owe me anything but understand I'm not out to undermine you either. We all have our preferences and opinions.
 
overhanger said:
Yes, I do. I talked to a structural engineer at work this morning about the different locations of the gusseting in question and was told that the method you employ is as strong as Slee's IF the welds all hold up on yours. As you humbly claim to make a superior product to any name brand slider, I can only guess that it will never be a problem. Please don't forget that I have directed buying customers your way. Not that you owe me anything but understand I'm not out to undermine you either. We all have our preferences and opinions.
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no worries steve

come on down and i'll buy ya beer, or if ya wanna sto by this saturday,FJben will be buying the beer while we mock up some 80 sliders.;)
 
Sliders by toobadFJ's mounted on lifted 60...

361041.JPG
 
2badfjs said:
no worries steve

come on down and i'll buy ya beer, or if ya wanna sto by this saturday,FJben will be buying the beer while we mock up some 80 sliders.;)
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Cool and thanks for the offer. This Saturday will find me helping a Rising Sun member get his mighty 3FE running at peak power for Moab and later at DIA picking up a fellow 62 owner from Virginia and packing the truck for Cruise Moab. I think you and I are on the same page as far as being helpful to our friends. That and that we both have strong opinions but don't mind listening to and learning from them.
:beer: :beer:
 
overhanger said:
Cool and thanks for the offer. This Saturday will find me helping a Rising Sun member get his mighty 3FE running at peak power for Moab and later at DIA picking up a fellow 62 owner from Virginia and packing the truck for Cruise Moab. I think you and I are on the same page as far as being helpful to our friends. That and that we both have strong opinions but don't mind listening to and learning from them.
:beer: :beer:
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:grinpimp: yes sir!

have fun in moab!
 
I have been in Slee's shop and seen some of his products and they are indeed top notch, but I would hazard a guess that he didnt just decide to one day open a first class shop with hundred of product and hope that someone showed up. Most people with the entrepreneurial spirit will start with a limited or even single product and believe that they can build it a better or different way than someone else. As their product demand grows they usually grown and encure new and additional cost (i.e the difference in a large shop and work out of your garage.) Both have a product that appeal to different people. I am always one for helping out some trying to bring more products out and everyone except the guy who has a monopoly will agree that competition is good for the consumer. I have 2 sets of Jims sliders and have found him to be very informative and helpful. I have also called slee's several times and they have gone out of there way to be friendly. Unless you have an unlimited budget most people have to pick and choose how they spend their money and cant always buy the most expensive versions out on the market. I started with $2200 cruiser and not counting my labor or time have well over $14000 invested. The one thing I do see out of all of this is that without looking at a specific product I dont see how some can make all sorts of asumptions about a slider from one or 2 end pictures. I have seen several of his products without the step ends a the welds look great. I have also seen how jim modifies them many different ways depending on a customers want and those differences make them look like many different products on the market. I am also fairly sure that all sliders will look similar in that unless you want them with circles or triangles you can only change them so much. I am positive that Slee will continue to sell plenty of their quality products and as Jims sliders are seen the demand for them will rise an probably the price also, but that is what happens when you work for yourself.
 
REKCUT said:
I have been in Slee's shop and seen some of his products and they are indeed top notch, but I would hazard a guess that he didnt just decide to one day open a first class shop with hundred of product and hope that someone showed up. Most people with the entrepreneurial spirit will start with a limited or even single product and believe that they can build it a better or different way than someone else. As their product demand grows they usually grown and encure new and additional cost (i.e the difference in a large shop and work out of your garage.) Both have a product that appeal to different people. I am always one for helping out some trying to bring more products out and everyone except the guy who has a monopoly will agree that competition is good for the consumer. I have 2 sets of Jims sliders and have found him to be very informative and helpful. I have also called slee's several times and they have gone out of there way to be friendly. Unless you have an unlimited budget most people have to pick and choose how they spend their money and cant always buy the most expensive versions out on the market. I started with $2200 cruiser and not counting my labor or time have well over $14000 invested. The one thing I do see out of all of this is that without looking at a specific product I dont see how some can make all sorts of asumptions about a slider from one or 2 end pictures. I have seen several of his products without the step ends a the welds look great. I have also seen how jim modifies them many different ways depending on a customers want and those differences make them look like many different products on the market. I am also fairly sure that all sliders will look similar in that unless you want them with circles or triangles you can only change them so much. I am positive that Slee will continue to sell plenty of their quality products and as Jims sliders are seen the demand for them will rise an probably the price also, but that is what happens when you work for yourself.
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THAD?
 
yes
 
overhanger said:
REKCUT, are you a student in Springfield? I ask as I graduated from SMS in '73.
Yeah, I'm old!!
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This thread just got more fun!!

Thad...I met you last year at the Ramble (me = Poop Brown FJ60)...we started the run with the 80's, but you had to bail to get some gas (IIRC). Are you gonna be there again? I will, sans truck, unless I can get the tranny/t-case installed!!!

Overhanger...I graduated SMS in 2000. Although, it is now called Missouri State (The name change finally got approved). I hope to meet ya at Moab...I'll be the guy in the rental (Flying to SLC for work).

Cheers,
Matt
 
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