Which mud terrain is better for sand dunes

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V

VIZA IVXX

Joined
Jul 5, 2016
Threads
7
Messages
34
Location
El paso
I'm between the bfg KM2 vs maxxis BIGHORN 762 vs dick cepek EXTREME COUNTRY vs cooper STT PRO .

They will be used at Red Sands in El Paso where the sand can be very deep and soft.

Probably 70% soft sand dunes and trails, 20% light rocks (stock 2016 4runner), and 10% mud during the rainy season (July~Aug).

I want a muddy because I get ridiculously CRAZY WILD in the mud. My girl and friends get scared. But I also want a muddy that can float over sand better than the rest so I can still climb the dunes without digging in too much.

I'm not concerned with looks, comfort, road noise, wear, or anything that has to do with street driving.

They are all around the same price here so that's not an issue either.

Going on a stock 2016 4runner. I'll be swapping the street tires/wheels on the weekends.

Not interested in all terrains at all. I know they're better in sand but I need a muddy for all out beast mode in the in the mud.

Thanks!

Sorry if this has been asked but I'm a noob haha. My bad.

Any insight is much appreciated.
 
I can't speak about any other tire other then the Dick Cepek Extreme Country. I have these on my FJ80 and have been very happy with them in the dunes (Pismo). Big improvement over the KOs they replaced but not a fair comparison also due to the wider foot print of the DCs.
I have read that the General Grabber MT is very good in the lose sand so you might want to have a look at those as well.
 
None of those tires really qualify as a mud tire.

And IMHO, it's not the tire as much as the pressure you will be running in the sand. I've had a great time at Pismo beach in 2wd with BFG all terrains..
 
Mace said:
None of those tires really qualify as a mud tire.

And IMHO, it's not the tire as much as the pressure you will be running in the sand. I've had a great time at Pismo beach in 2wd with BFG all terrains..
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So what is an example of what qualified as a mud terrain? All the tires I mentored are listed s mud terrains.

I originally wanted interco super swampers but toyota has limited me to a 17" rim so that didn't fly.

Thanks for suggesting the grabbers. Will look into those.
 
1derer said:
I can't speak about any other tire other then the Dick Cepek Extreme Country. I have these on my FJ80 and have been very happy with them in the dunes (Pismo). Big improvement over the KOs they replaced but not a fair comparison also due to the wider foot print of the DCs.
I have read that the General Grabber MT is very good in the lose sand so you might want to have a look at those as well.
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that didn't fly.

Thanks for suggesting the grabbers. Will look into those
 
SB Closer said:
No Toyo OC M/T? I am caught between Toyos and BFG KM2s at the moment. Mostly sand/gravel in my area though.
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I looked into the toyos and given their reputation almost jumped on them.

But they are too heavy and only come in load range E which makes them heavier and stiffer thus making them not very suitable for sand as they would probably just dig in instead of floating over it. Even at 5psi some E range tires will still look fully inflated. Not to mention the decrease in performance due to their weight.

The km2 was lighter but still E rated and without the reputation of the toyo.

Think about what size you need and if it's for a light truck then look to see if you can find those in range c, which is better suited for sand and gravel.

If it's a heavy truck then range D. Huge truck, or, always hauling heavy loads then range E.

Range E can also be used in light trucks for extreme rock crawling or offroading where there's high risk of a puncture. But I'd look into bead locks at that point so to drop the psi way low.

Gravel might feel like crap with E range as well.
 
VIZA IVXX said:
I looked into the toyos and given their reputation almost jumped on them.

But they are too heavy and only come in load range E which makes them heavier and stiffer thus making them not very suitable for sand as they would probably just dig in instead of floating over it. Even at 5psi some E range tires will still look fully inflated. Not to mention the decrease in performance due to their weight.

The km2 was lighter but still E rated and without the reputation of the toyo.

Think about what size you need and if it's for a light truck then look to see if you can find those in range c, which is better suited for sand and gravel.

If it's a heavy truck then range D. Huge truck, or, always hauling heavy loads then range E.

Range E can also be used in light trucks for extreme rock crawling or offroading where there's high risk of a puncture. But I'd look into bead locks at that point so to drop the psi way low.

Gravel might feel like crap with E range as well.
Click to expand...

whoa whoa whoa I am immune to your facts and logic.. Haha no but seriously, you make some darn good points - thanks. You've definitely got me thinking now.
 
VIZA IVXX said:
Thanks. Would you suggest a 7 or 8 inch wheel width to help prevent popping a bead at low psi? I heard narrower is better but still not sure.
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I have found factory wheels hold beads much better than aftermarket wheels. With that said factory 80 wheels are 8" and I have had my 35's on factory wheels as low as 8psi in extreme conditions without loosing a bead.
 
SB Closer said:
whoa whoa whoa I am immune to your facts and logic.. Haha no but seriously, you make some darn good points - thanks. You've definitely got me thinking now.
Click to expand...
Immune lol. The thing is I posted the question a while back. People didn't answer until today and since then I been doin research and can probly answer my own question now haha.

I went with the maxxis buckshot 764. Also known as the bighorn 764 in the rest of the world. I got them today and can update you on performance, especially in the sand and gravel.

They are one of the few 265X70R17 in range C. Geolander mt+ is another and was my next choice and easier to find than the buckshot. DC extreme country also has range c but in 255x75x17, which is taller and will screw with the gearing.

If toyota didn't screw you like they did me and limit you to a 17 inch or greater rim then there are a lot more choices for you in 16 and especially 15.
 
LandCruiserPhil said:
I have found factory wheels hold beads much better than aftermarket wheels. With that said factory 80 wheels are 8" and I have had my 35's on factory wheels as low as 8psi in extreme conditions without loosing a bead.
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Wow thanks a lot! I have 4runner factory wheels. I feel more confident about dropping the psi now thanks.

How do you drive when offroading?

I drive it pretty hard and ride the dunes like waves and get all crazy n stuff. I currently run stock p metric tires at around 20# front and 18# rear without a problem so far. But I wanna get crazier with the muddies. Way crazier.
 
VIZA IVXX said:
Wow thanks a lot! I have 4runner factory wheels. I feel more confident about dropping the psi now thanks.

How do you drive when offroading?

I drive it pretty hard and ride the dunes like waves and get all crazy n stuff. I currently run stock p metric tires at around 20# front and 18# rear without a problem so far. But I wanna get crazier with the muddies. Way crazier.
Click to expand...

How do I drive offroading.....With no drama:D

Drop your pressure to 15psi and you will be very happy you did
 
No experience whatsoever with sand, but do have the Toyo MTs and can say that they do flex at lower pressures. Even drove 20 kms at low speed on gravel roads and even up to 60 kph on highway briefly for a couple kms with one tire down to 10 psi on OEM steelies without issue.
 
canman said:
No experience whatsoever with sand, but do have the Toyo MTs and can say that they do flex at lower pressures. Even drove 20 kms at low speed on gravel roads and even up to 60 kph on highway briefly for a couple kms with one tire down to 10 psi on OEM steelies without issue.
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Do you know the load range on the toyos? What vehicle they were on?

Thanks. I got the maxxis now but would like the toyos next time if they do perform well in sand on a light truck in range E.
 
VIZA IVXX said:
So what is an example of what qualified as a mud terrain? All the tires I mentored are listed s mud terrains.

I originally wanted interco super swampers but toyota has limited me to a 17" rim so that didn't fly.

Thanks for suggesting the grabbers. Will look into those.
Click to expand...

The "Mud" tires that are commonly available now a days are glorified street tires that help when in muddy conditions. True mud tires have a much greater void ratio in the tread. Swampers, gumbo monster mudders, ground hawgs, SImex etc.. Those tires are poor on the street but dig in the mud like you would not believe.

VIZA IVXX said:
I looked into the toyos and given their reputation almost jumped on them.

But they are too heavy and only come in load range E which makes them heavier and stiffer thus making them not very suitable for sand as they would probably just dig in instead of floating over it. Even at 5psi some E range tires will still look fully inflated. Not to mention the decrease in performance due to their weight.

The km2 was lighter but still E rated and without the reputation of the toyo.

Think about what size you need and if it's for a light truck then look to see if you can find those in range c, which is better suited for sand and gravel.

If it's a heavy truck then range D. Huge truck, or, always hauling heavy loads then range E.

Range E can also be used in light trucks for extreme rock crawling or offroading where there's high risk of a puncture. But I'd look into bead locks at that point so to drop the psi way low.

Gravel might feel like crap with E range as well.
Click to expand...

You are putting way too much thought into the load range of a tire. You mention swampers as your first choice, however the sidewalls are much stiffer due to the bias ply design than a typical radial is regardless of the load range (I'm not aware of any load range E radial that will not have a sidewall bulge at 5 psi unless it's not mounted on a truck). Pressure is your friend. The lower in the sand, the better. At high pressures, all gravel roads suck.


LandCruiserPhil said:
I have found factory wheels hold beads much better than aftermarket wheels. With that said factory 80 wheels are 8" and I have had my 35's on factory wheels as low as 8psi in extreme conditions without loosing a bead.
Click to expand...

A lot of the factory wheels have a "bigger" safety bead. 8 psi in the sand is probably fine, in the rocks that's pretty low without beadlocks. I generally run about 10 to 12 on my 60 and basically let the 40's air down till the "wiggle" a lot when kicked. Generally, starting at 15 and then seeing how low you can go from there works fine. Very few rims will pop a bead at 15 psi.



What size tires did you buy after all?
 
Mace said:
The "Mud" tires that are commonly available now a days are glorified street tires that help when in muddy conditions. True mud tires have a much greater void ratio in the tread. Swampers, gumbo monster mudders, ground hawgs, SImex etc.. Those tires are poor on the street but dig in the mud like you would not believe.



You are putting way too much thought into the load range of a tire. You mention swampers as your first choice, however the sidewalls are much stiffer due to the bias ply design than a typical radial is regardless of the load range (I'm not aware of any load range E radial that will not have a sidewall bulge at 5 psi unless it's not mounted on a truck). Pressure is your friend. The lower in the sand, the better. At high pressures, all gravel roads suck.




A lot of the factory wheels have a "bigger" safety bead. 8 psi in the sand is probably fine, in the rocks that's pretty low without beadlocks. I generally run about 10 to 12 on my 60 and basically let the 40's air down till the "wiggle" a lot when kicked. Generally, starting at 15 and then seeing how low you can go from there works fine. Very few rims will pop a bead at 15 psi.



What size tires did you buy after all?
Click to expand...
Man thanks for all this info. I bought a 265X70R17C maxxis buckshot 764.

You are correct in both statements. My first choice was a stiffer bias ply. However my intentions were to run a 15 or 16 inch with bead locks and psi in the single digits thus making it more suitable for sand.

And those tires are glorified all terrains. But withing those I found the maxxis to be one of the closest to a true muddy. I believe the glorified all terrains derived from the consumers demands fire a quiet and comfortable aggressive LOOKING tire.
 
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