Which Has the Most Flats? Split Rims/Tubes vs Non-Split Rims/Tubeless (1 Viewer)

[Solace in Solitude]

I need to buy new rims and tires within the next year and have been doing a lot of research... I've learned a lot... but, I find some of the comments confusing...

I drive a lot in very remote areas and the most attractive thing (to me) about split rims and tubes, is the ease in fixing flats... e.g. break the tire off the rim, remove the ring, patch the tube and air it back up and be done (... it's a little more than that...).

Of course, with the proper preparation (ARB Patch Kit, etc.), tubeless tires can generally be patched fairly quickly as well.

I'm considering going to 16" rims, to provide a larger selection of tires... and am trying to decide whether to go to splits or not...

My confusion comes from comments that were made in a couple of excellent 2010 threads, in which @lostmarbles and @JohnnyC documented the proper procedure for working with split rims...

Some posters commented that they have more frequent flats with split rims and tubes...

I'd like to get a consensus...

• who feels like they have more frequent flats with split rims and tubes?
• who feels like they have more frequent flats with non-split rims and tubeless tires?

Thanks!!

 

[hj 60]

You can attach a poll to this topic.
I had a small leak in a tubeless and could not push a repair string trough so the tire had to be removed and fix from inside.

I think some of the horror split flat stories are just about wrong size tubes and not properly removed factory stickers/sand in the tire or other user error?

 

[JohnnyC]

I had a flat due to rust... A piece slid up and punctured the tube... My rims are quite rusty lol

The other times it was nails/screws ... I guess if split rims are magnetized this can be the reason lol

But I work at construction sites and find the workers suck at picking up nails

 

[Solace in Solitude]

I guess I should have attached some specificity... here are a couple of examples of what I am referring to:

@FJforty (no longer on MUD?) said, "If I were going on a safari or across the desert I would do split rims, they can be repaired almost indefinitely with hand tools. Nowadays good radial tires with a spare, plug kit, fix-a-flat, gorilla goop, and on-board air compressor is alot less work and worry. Well maybe..."

@RED47 said, "I have just swapped over to full rims, I ran the BFG Muddies on the split rims for a while but was getting too many flats, there was a stage there when i was doing them quite regularly and managed to have the whole tyre pulled off the rim in 3 minutes!!
I liked the spit rims and muddies for the whole old skool look...but changed my mind when i had a rear tyre colapse a side wall on a main road going around a corner at about 80 KM/H!!
I liked the spit rims and muddies for the whole old skool look...but changed my mind when i had a rear tyre colapse a side wall on a main road going around a corner at about 80 KM/H!!
I was going to get a different brand tyre for the split rims but a mate of mine told me he could get 4 rims and tyres cheaper than he could get just the rubber for the splitties"​

I'm curious whether others feel they are more prone to flats with splits and tubes or with non-splits and tubeless.

I've attached a poll, as suggested by @hj 60 ...

Thanks!!

 

[george_tlc]

I've run split rims on my patrol in oz since 1980 - when I bought it - came with splits.

The #1 nice thing about split rims is they are easy to un-mount the tyre to repair the tube.
The #1 thing about split rims is that you have to un-mount the tyre to repair the tube...

Cleaning *ALL* puncture debris and other 'stuff' (sand/rust etc) is essential for a durable repair. For any serious puncture I will also patch the inside of the tyre to prevent debris from entering and rubbing the tube. Also you want the tyre side of the puncture smooth to prevent tube damage. So, yes, technique and attention to cleaning the entire inside of tyre and rim and rust ring etc are critical to prevent future wear and tear of the tube. I use some talcum powder to ensure the tube settles happily back in the tyre/rim area prior to re-inflation.

Use quality cold vulcanising patches and 'adhesive'. Clean the tube area well beyond the size of the patch you will use - metho or similar solvent for cleaning works fine. Petrol in a pinch. Use a good roller to set the patch and cold vulcanising fluid, take your time, you want the patch to properly vulcanise to the tube (ditto for a inside tyre patch repair).

I take a spare tube (or two) on all trips in case the punctured tube is beyond repair (rare). Any tube that has more than 3 or 4 patches gets tossed and replaced with a new tube. Make sure you purchase GOOD tubes and the closest to the tyre size you plan to run (you really don't want your tube becoming balloon thin since you put at 700r16 tube into a 255 profile tyre).

We often get side or near side punctures in the oz outback due to fallen extremely sharp and hard desert tree branches etc. So places you have very sharp rocks. So, these are more than just a 'nail' puncture and repair requires some care to do well.

The one big problem with a split rim/tube wheel is that if you have a puncture (nail etc) the air loss can be extremely rapid, since once the tube lets go there are a lot of spots on the rim for that air to escape. A tubeless tyre/wheel will typically deflate quite slowly since the nail is still in the tyre, giving you more time to safely pull over.

A mate I have often gone bush with back there runs tubeless and often he can repair a puncture with decent plugs much faster than I could repair a split rim tyre/tube, since he can do simple repairs without even removing the wheel from the vehicle, or at least do it without removing the tyre from the rim. He does have a great bead breaker and bead 're-installer' for working with his setup - so pulling a tyre off isn't a big deal. The one important thing to note with a tubeless tyre is that there is a mold release agent on the inside of the tyre (the 'tube' surface inside) that MUST be cleaned with an appropriate agent to ensure an internal patch will actually vulcanise to the rubber. If you don't clean that release agent, the patch/vulcanisation will fail. Again, this is only an issue if the puncture is beyond the ability of a plug (or several plugs) to seal (e.g. a slice versus a puncture wound).


So, I'd suggest there's really no difference in the puncture rate of a split rim versus a tubeless, it will have a LOT more to do with the actual tyre you run (# of plies etc) and its sidewall strength and to some extent its profile. Crossply versus radial, etc etc.

cheers,
george.

 

[Solace in Solitude]

I've run split rims on my patrol in oz since 1980 - when I bought it - came with splits.

The #1 nice thing about split rims is they are easy to un-mount the tyre to repair the tube.
The #1 thing about split rims is that you have to un-mount the tyre to repair the tube...

Cleaning *ALL* puncture debris and other 'stuff' (sand/rust etc) is essential for a durable repair. For any serious puncture I will also patch the inside of the tyre to prevent debris from entering and rubbing the tube. Also you want the tyre side of the puncture smooth to prevent tube damage. So, yes, technique and attention to cleaning the entire inside of tyre and rim and rust ring etc are critical to prevent future wear and tear of the tube. I use some talcum powder to ensure the tube settles happily back in the tyre/rim area prior to re-inflation.

Use quality cold vulcanising patches and 'adhesive'. Clean the tube area well beyond the size of the patch you will use - metho or similar solvent for cleaning works fine. Petrol in a pinch. Use a good roller to set the patch and cold vulcanising fluid, take your time, you want the patch to properly vulcanise to the tube (ditto for a inside tyre patch repair).

I take a spare tube (or two) on all trips in case the punctured tube is beyond repair (rare). Any tube that has more than 3 or 4 patches gets tossed and replaced with a new tube. Make sure you purchase GOOD tubes and the closest to the tyre size you plan to run (you really don't want your tube becoming balloon thin since you put at 700r16 tube into a 255 profile tyre).

We often get side or near side punctures in the oz outback due to fallen extremely sharp and hard desert tree branches etc. So places you have very sharp rocks. So, these are more than just a 'nail' puncture and repair requires some care to do well.

The one big problem with a split rim/tube wheel is that if you have a puncture (nail etc) the air loss can be extremely rapid, since once the tube lets go there are a lot of spots on the rim for that air to escape. A tubeless tyre/wheel will typically deflate quite slowly since the nail is still in the tyre, giving you more time to safely pull over.

A mate I have often gone bush with back there runs tubeless and often he can repair a puncture with decent plugs much faster than I could repair a split rim tyre/tube, since he can do simple repairs without even removing the wheel from the vehicle, or at least do it without removing the tyre from the rim. He does have a great bead breaker and bead 're-installer' for working with his setup - so pulling a tyre off isn't a big deal. The one important thing to note with a tubeless tyre is that there is a mold release agent on the inside of the tyre (the 'tube' surface inside) that MUST be cleaned with an appropriate agent to ensure an internal patch will actually vulcanise to the rubber. If you don't clean that release agent, the patch/vulcanisation will fail. Again, this is only an issue if the puncture is beyond the ability of a plug (or several plugs) to seal (e.g. a slice versus a puncture wound).


So, I'd suggest there's really no difference in the puncture rate of a split rim versus a tubeless, it will have a LOT more to do with the actual tyre you run (# of plies etc) and its sidewall strength and to some extent its profile. Crossply versus radial, etc etc.

cheers,
george.

Thanks George... Great response!!