Hey guys, I just got a 50mm lift on the front of my 2016 200 series and 20mm on the rear. What I’m wondering is, is it really necessary to also do the upper control arms? They suspension shop that installed my suspension got my wheel alignment in alright but recommended I get upper control arms. I won’t be doing an extreme 4wding so I don’t see my suspension needing max droop etc. what experience have you guys had?
Upper control arms (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter livo
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bloc
SILVER Star
They probably recommended the arms because they had to max out your adjusters to get it in range.. and this part is speculation, but for the same reason they may have been able to get it in range but not ideal.
The better arms out there build in some camber & caster adjustment to offset common lift heights, allowing your adjusters to go back to the center of their range. This means more ideal alignments now, and much more room to adjust things in the future if you have a big hit and maybe tweak something.
The problem is many arms introduce their own issues.. like squeaking bushings, or requirements for periodic grease application to avoid those squeaks.
Just do your homework. There is a huge amount of discussion on UCAs on this board.. dive in. I’m happy with my ARB/OME arms so far, but they are new on the market and maybe not much time for any issues to pop up yet.
The better arms out there build in some camber & caster adjustment to offset common lift heights, allowing your adjusters to go back to the center of their range. This means more ideal alignments now, and much more room to adjust things in the future if you have a big hit and maybe tweak something.
The problem is many arms introduce their own issues.. like squeaking bushings, or requirements for periodic grease application to avoid those squeaks.
Just do your homework. There is a huge amount of discussion on UCAs on this board.. dive in. I’m happy with my ARB/OME arms so far, but they are new on the market and maybe not much time for any issues to pop up yet.
If you were able to get the alignment in range for camber and caster, then all is well. There's nothing stressed by the alignment being at the ends of the range. The stock parts are strong and well engineered and should last the life of the vehicle.
The only reason to get different UCAs is if you can’t get your vehicle aligned properly. I was not able to get mine aligned after a similar lift, but if you could then there’s no reason to pay for UCAs.
AutoCraft Aus
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200s are very compromised in the wheel alignment with incorrect but "drivable' set up, making them understeer, wear the outer tyre edges in the front and wander.
Putting in decent UCAs [Blackhawk fixed HD ball joint with OE supplier bushes are the best option, I should know, I designed them] will cure the issues, make the car much less tiring, and more enjoyable to drive, allow the abs and trac control to work better and save tyre wear.
So the answer is, 30mm or more lift, always put good UCAs.
Whel alignment you need is
1-3 mm toe in depending on tyre size.
.1 - .2 neg camber [not pos like std!]
Max caster, wheels fully forward.
Hope that helps.
Putting in decent UCAs [Blackhawk fixed HD ball joint with OE supplier bushes are the best option, I should know, I designed them] will cure the issues, make the car much less tiring, and more enjoyable to drive, allow the abs and trac control to work better and save tyre wear.
So the answer is, 30mm or more lift, always put good UCAs.
Whel alignment you need is
1-3 mm toe in depending on tyre size.
.1 - .2 neg camber [not pos like std!]
Max caster, wheels fully forward.
Hope that helps.
Hi, @AutoCraft Aus ! Interested in your thoughts. Here in the states most shops plug in the stock specs and adjust to those. That way they can never be challenged about the work - "Well, it's within the recommended specs....." I recently had my local shop - who knew my truck was lifted 2" w/ Dobinson lift - tweak my alignment and here are the specs they landed on:
So the spec in the system clearly has no allowance for the lift. They assert that any more camber to the negative would result in excessive wear on the interior of the tread. It seems like CAMBER is the one measurement that the machine doesn't need to take the additional strut length into account on. Straight up and down is straight up and down lifted or not. Maybe I am not considering something in the equation..... I have SPC UCAs so there is a ton of adjustment not being used.
I hear you on the positive caster too, but the KDSS has other thoughts about moving the wheel/tire as far forward as you suggest. How have you skirted that constraint? I'd be interested to see (if you would be willing to share) the specs on an alignment you've done for a lifted LC200. In your post is the 1-3mm toe "degrees" or millimeters?
Thanks!
AutoCraft Aus
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mm = millimetres
We have KDSS spacer kit to move the whole set up forward 12mm to gain clearance, but we also normally run 25 pos rims on the 200 with bigger wheels also.
I shared the spec we use for all Toyota IFS in my previous post also for you.
Plus, stock spec for std height and standard wheels and std suspension you can get away with.
if you want bigger tyres, and more height, meaning more weight transfer, then pos camber never ever works, and any wheel aligner worth their weight will always set the alignment to suit the requirement, not the std spec on a non standard vehicle.
This is the the type of set up we do for 200, first I know of with a bolt in secondary bypass set up, and has our #slinkylongtravel stage 5 bypass rear shock set up also.
On my vehicle I run .6 neg camber, 4 mm toe in, and 4 degrees caster as max forward with 1 degree Blackhawk arms fitted, running 35s and 3" lift on my 15 Hilux [tacoma]
I like my vehicles pointy, so I can get the front exactly where I want it, and the back I can get where is needed with the accelerator or brake in that process
