Transmission Oil - Would you do a change with 210K Miles?

[NikP]

I've read a number of posts in the 100 Series forum about people doing a drain and fill with no issues with over 200K miles.

I have a 2008 I bought last year. The previous owner mentioned the transmission oil had been changed but I have no record of what was actually done or when.

I have no current issues but cringe when thinking about oil with over 200K miles on it. I'm thinking just a drain and fill and not mess with the pan. At least this only introduces ~30% new oil vs. shocking the system.

I'm leaning toward changing unless someone has a horror story to share.

What's the general consensus here?

 

[skrypj]

Yeah, a drain and fill.

Maybe do a few drain and fills. Like drain 3-4 quarts or whatever comes out of the pan, refill the same amount. Do that every 500 miles or whatever. That way you are not introducing a bunch of new clean fluid with fresh detergents and shocking the transmission

 

[linuxgod]

Yeah unless you can get more info I’d just do a single drain and fill and I would not drop the pan. Run the VIN on though the Toyota owners site and see if anything comes up, but if a small shop did the work it probably won’t.

 

[grinchy]

I recommend dropping the pan, replacing the filter, and pumping out thru the transmission cooler to exchange all the fluid.

I did mine at 235k or so and it quieted the tranny and fixed shifting issues I didn’t even know I had.

Just soak the exposed threads of the pan bolts with your favorite bolt lube ahead of time, I did end up breaking off one bolt, the bolts are not sturdy and easy to snap if you’re not watching them. Was easy to avoid breaking more after I snapped the first one, once I knew.

15 qt, a filter, and a new gasket is the way to go.

Then you can do the 4 qt thing after that every 30k miles

<I am referring to the bolt threads that are visible above the gasket joint, the bolts thread thru and are exposed above the joint, not the heads of the bolts.>

 

[skrypj]

I recommend dropping the pan, replacing the filter, and pumping out thru the transmission cooler to exchange all the fluid.

I did mine at 235k or so and it quieted the tranny and fixed shifting issues I didn’t even know I had.

Just soak the exposed threads of the pan bolts with your favorite bolt lube ahead of time, I did end up breaking off one bolt, the bolts are not sturdy and easy to snap if you’re not watching them. Was easy to avoid breaking more after I snapped the first one, once I knew.

15 qt, a filter, and a new gasket is the way to go.

Then you can do the 4 qt thing after that every 30k miles

<I am referring to the bolt threads that are visible above the gasket joint, the bolts thread thru and are exposed above the joint, not the heads of the bolts.>

Every Toyota bolt I’ve ever encountered. I was snapping bolts off my zero rust southern owned GX460 at 70k miles

 

[yOHda]

I swapped a used transmission with 170k into my Tundra and filled it full of fresh ws(12-13 qts w/ new cooler). Hasn’t missed a beat in 7 months

 

[NikP]

Well it took a while but I finally got around to doing a drain and fill during my 220,000 mile oil change. The oil that came out did not resemble transmission oil. No hint of red at all. Best I can tell, the fluid level was somewhere between 2 and 2.5 quarts low. I drained just shy of 3.25 quarts when I started. I added back 4 quarts and checked the level once it reached 107 degrees F. Nothing. Added another quart and brought up to temp. Nothing. Repeated and finally got fluid to flow out of the check plug on the third round.

I'm going to do this process for the next couple oil changes since the oil looked so bad. Cross my fingers.

 

[PDoyle]

If that is the case then the PO lied to you.

 

[NikP]

If that is the case then the PO lied to you.

Yep that's what I thought after I saw the oil come out.

 

[NikP]

I thought about this and it is interesting that the oil level was just over 2 quarts low. If it hadn't ever been changed that is a lot of oil to be absent with no signs of leakage. I'm betting the previous owner did a drain and fill but didn't follow the proper service manual instructions. The instructions say to fill the oil until the oil runs from the check plug. I bet the owner did this step, but I believe he stopped there.

The manual then states to reinsert the check plug and add 2.2 additional quarts and proceed with checking the level with the engine idling and at temp (106-110F). I bet he didn't do this step at all and that's why it was 2+ quarts low.

His oil change was so badly diluted in a 13-quart total capacity system because he didn't add back very much new oil.

 

[PDoyle]

Could be, or the vehicle was slightly sloped or something like that. Either way it looks like it needs to be changed. How did the trans shift?

 

[joyRidaz]

Is there real risk of having a bit too much in there? I don’t recall hearing of any common leakage points, but maybe the plug wasn’t tight.

I diy-ed my full flush of WS and was personally not sure what a trickle of fluid meant, kind of subjective.

 

[gasman4u]

That

I thought about this and it is interesting that the oil level was just over 2 quarts low. If it hadn't ever been changed that is a lot of oil to be absent with no signs of leakage. I'm betting the previous owner did a drain and fill but didn't follow the proper service manual instructions. The instructions say to fill the oil until the oil runs from the check plug. I bet the owner did this step, but I believe he stopped there.

The manual then states to reinsert the check plug and add 2.2 additional quarts and proceed with checking the level with the engine idling and at temp (106-110F). I bet he didn't do this step at all and that's why it was 2+ quarts low.

His oil change was so badly diluted in a 13-quart total capacity system because he didn't add back very much new oil.

View attachment 3862088

That fluid looks bad. In addition to it being low, fluid’s toast. People keep talking about slipping clutches if you go too overboard with swapping fluid at this point. I have no experience with that. But I’d say your plan is at least a good start to rehab bad prior choices.

 

[NikP]

People keep talking about slipping clutches if you go too overboard

That's my biggest concern but for now it's shifting just fine. It's always had a bit of a hesitation going from reverse to drive but I'm not sure if that's normal since I don't have anything to compare to. The engagement for reverse to to drive is really slight so I'm not sure it's really a problem anyway. My only comparison is a GM transmission which has a pretty firm engagement from reverse to forward.

I'm waiting for a new check plug since the Allen head was a bit rounded and then I'll do another round of oil and see how things go. I'd at least feel better if there was at least a couple dilutions of new oil vs. what shows on the paper towel at this point. This first sample looks pretty bad.

 

[lx200inAR]

Has your radiator been swapped? Possibly lost some fluid in that exchange and never replaced as well.

 

[manofthewoods]

Has your radiator been swapped? Possibly lost some fluid in that exchange and never replaced as well.

That's a logical explanation.

Rounded Allen on plastic plug makes me wonder who caused it?

No matter what, or how; that fluid needs help.

I recently did mine @70k miles. Fluid coming out could have doubled for new, by the look of it.

 

[bicycleagent003]

That's my biggest concern but for now it's shifting just fine. It's always had a bit of a hesitation going from reverse to drive but I'm not sure if that's normal since I don't have anything to compare to. The engagement for reverse to to drive is really slight so I'm not sure it's really a problem anyway. My only comparison is a GM transmission which has a pretty firm engagement from reverse to forward.

I'm waiting for a new check plug since the Allen head was a bit rounded and then I'll do another round of oil and see how things go. I'd at least feel better if there was at least a couple dilutions of new oil vs. what shows on the paper towel at this point. This first sample looks pretty bad.

What fluid are you putting in, out of curiosity? I don't have a 200 Series, but when I bought my 80 Series with 215K miles I had a shop replace the pan screen and replace all the fluid with MaxLife ATF. I've been draining and filling occasionally since then (65K miles), and the tans works great, even in tough off-roading situations. I am a believer in replacing the ATF when you buy a used vehicle, regardless of mileage.

 

[NikP]

What fluid are you putting in, out of curiosity

Valvoline Maxlife.

 

[NikP]

I have a long way to go before I get transmission oil that resembles transmission oil. The first photo is after the driving for 800 miles. It doesn't look much different than where I started although it isn't quite as dark. I did another drain and fill. Both of these drains have had left some gritty particles in the pan but what's there isn't a dense mass, just random particles.

The second photo is the oil that comes out when checking the level (diluted with about 1 gallon of new oil during the period of warming up to the specified temp).

I'm going to sneak up on this slowly by doing a drain and fill again at the next oil change. As much as I want good, clean, red oil I need to resist the urge to be aggressive getting there. I've saved all the previous oil just in case I run into a problem and have to go backwards to get friction particles back into the mix.

Crossing my fingers.

 

[gasman4u]

I have a long way to go before I get transmission oil that resembles transmission oil. The first photo is after the driving for 800 miles. It doesn't look much different than where I started although it isn't quite as dark. I did another drain and fill. Both of these drains have had left some gritty particles in the pan but what's there isn't a dense mass, just random particles.

The second photo is the oil that comes out when checking the level (diluted with about 1 gallon of new oil during the period of warming up to the specified temp).

I'm going to sneak up on this slowly by doing a drain and fill again at the next oil change. As much as I want good, clean, red oil I need to resist the urge to be aggressive getting there. I've saved all the previous oil just in case I run into a problem and have to go backwards to get friction particles back into the mix.

Crossing my fingers.

View attachment 3869608

View attachment 3869610

That still looks gnarly. If you’re dead set on getting your transmission fluid red, you can jump some drain and fills and simply disconnect at the transmission cooler feed line. Point it at your favorite drain bucket, drain 3 quarts, replace your 3 quarts, repeat x 4. Perform level adjustment, voila red fluid!

Transmission slipping/issues may or may not follow. But again, this is the fastest way to red fluid.

I think most knowledgeable people caution against draining it in the way I’ve described here in your case to get back to red with as many miles as you have and as long as the fluid has gone without being changed. I could be wrong.