What are the downsides to diesels then, Mr President? I'm assuming you've spent a lot of time driving them, given your extreme views.
Toyota thinking of merging land cruiser and seqouia ?
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What are the downsides to diesels then, Mr President? I'm assuming you've spent a lot of time driving them, given your extreme views.
Its not that there is a downside, there are a lot of advantages.
The problem is that the 4.5 is a joke by North American standards. Ford/GM/Dodge have incredible diesels.
A diesel would also have to be made for the Tundra if you were to offer it in the Lc, might as well stop production of the Tundra if the 4.5 were offered as it will nver sell.
I think the GM scandal from the 80s has scared most americans for life. Turbo diesel is the only way to go. It is 2011 and we are still accepting 14 mpg as acceptable. It is just sad that we even think that way. I think the 100 TD from 2000 got 20 in city and 24 mpg on the highway.
I would be a new car buyer if Toyota/Lexus offered their turbo diesels in the USA. Otherwise, I will stick with used. I would even consider a Rubicon with a turbo diesel. This is actually closer than any Toyota diesel.
I would be a new car buyer if Toyota/Lexus offered their turbo diesels in the USA. Otherwise, I will stick with used. I would even consider a Rubicon with a turbo diesel. This is actually closer than any Toyota diesel.
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Don't want to start the old petrol vrs diesel war again but you really only have to drive a TTD 200 once to know how bogus is the notion that gassers, even 5.7l, are completely superior.
Even allowing for the common wisdom that most LC (or Sequoia) buyers never hit the mud or trail, no one except maybe the odd petrol head in Dubai, buys a LC to drop quarter miles. I believe that most people buy them to cart the family, tow boats or wagons, to tour/cruise or in some cases (like us nutters) to wheel.
650 nm of torque out of the box does all of that so much better than a gasser and at 26-27 miles per gallon is there really any contest?? Well is there?
Ok granted, you are not going to win too many drag races against a massive gas V8s (although you may be surprised at a TTD 4.5's nimbleness) but then you may well catch up and continue to pull away from them on the hills with a load on behind.
Look, its only my opinion and I claim to be no expert, (unlike others here) and I readily acknowledge that petrol engines have a lot of good points too but I really struggle to see a compelling case for petrol powered land cruisers. And arguments over environmental concerns are rubbish.
To say that America will never accept a diesel engine over its petrol V8 love affair is a huge leap of logic and shows how stuck in the past you are. Give a Yank a good enough reason and give him option and I bet the truth would be different. As the US dollar continues its inevitable slide over the next decade and as gas creeps closer to 8 or 10 dollars a gallon I think the compelling reasons for diesel engines and diesel hybrids will become overwhelming. Then again I guess there is nothing common about common sense . Pagemaster: a case in point.
JM2CW
Even allowing for the common wisdom that most LC (or Sequoia) buyers never hit the mud or trail, no one except maybe the odd petrol head in Dubai, buys a LC to drop quarter miles. I believe that most people buy them to cart the family, tow boats or wagons, to tour/cruise or in some cases (like us nutters) to wheel.
650 nm of torque out of the box does all of that so much better than a gasser and at 26-27 miles per gallon is there really any contest?? Well is there?
Ok granted, you are not going to win too many drag races against a massive gas V8s (although you may be surprised at a TTD 4.5's nimbleness) but then you may well catch up and continue to pull away from them on the hills with a load on behind.
Look, its only my opinion and I claim to be no expert, (unlike others here) and I readily acknowledge that petrol engines have a lot of good points too but I really struggle to see a compelling case for petrol powered land cruisers. And arguments over environmental concerns are rubbish.
To say that America will never accept a diesel engine over its petrol V8 love affair is a huge leap of logic and shows how stuck in the past you are. Give a Yank a good enough reason and give him option and I bet the truth would be different. As the US dollar continues its inevitable slide over the next decade and as gas creeps closer to 8 or 10 dollars a gallon I think the compelling reasons for diesel engines and diesel hybrids will become overwhelming. Then again I guess there is nothing common about common sense . Pagemaster: a case in point.
JM2CW
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Billfish said:
Well put indeed.
most of what you said generalizes diesels over gas. I agree with what you are saying in that of Duramax Diesel or Powerstroke diesel vs the 5.7...the diesel wins. Most of your argument is about the 4.5 vs the 4.7 because that is what you have where you live.
I think YOU need to drive the 5.7 in Land Cruiser, Tundra or Sequoia form before you talk....the 4.5 holds nothing against a 5.7 except MPG, low grade, steep grade, mud, everything....the 5.7 out peforms EVERY single time. The 650nm has nothing on the 5.7 dual VVIt and 381hp. NOTHING....and they are geared the same, so fair is fair.
Compared to the 4.7, yes the diesel wins. Compared to the 5.7, the 4.5 diesel is rubbish.
Lets not forget that the 4.5 is a much higher premium over the 5.7.....yet performs worse.
The 4.5 diesel would never make it into a HD class whereas that 5.7 would be an entry level engine.
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Oh how sweet it is to have banned Squirrelmaster from my forum view. No idea what he said but imagine it was dribble and off the point as usual. Too many squirrels will do that to you I expect.
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Just more ignorant propaganda.
Gasoline V8's are wallowing their way to extinction, I can smell it on the wind. with growing fuel economy and emissions standards, and polities placing a greater emphasis on efficiency; the days of big, roaring, over-muscled engines are soon to fade.
By bailing out Generally Mediocre and Crapsler, the US Fed has leverage over them now to heed whatever economy standards come to be. Ford's already peddling economy cars with fervor, all it takes is for a couple generations of car before the next time we see a V8 will be in a museum.
And Pagemaster: You just don't get it.
1. Duramax, Cummins 6BT, and Powerstroke aren't then end-all-be-all diesel motors. Not everyone wants one, and they are no magic bullet.
2. The 1VD-FTV isn't meant to compete with "The Big Three"'s lineup, it's a passenger vehicle and medium-truck motor. That's why it's in Land Cruisers, and not in your "macho" Tundra. If Toyota wanted to compete with them in a heavier diesel truck market, they wouldn't even waste time or money developing a motor: they'd just drop in a Hino truck motor, especially since Hino is a well-regarded, and globally known brand (like how Dodge knows they can't make a motor to save their skins, and farmed it out to Cummins). Hino is already beating back the competition here for tow trucks, garbage trucks, flatbeds, bobtails, and beginning to reach municipal buyers as well.
Sources? What sources? Now you have sources? Do you pay them monthly or weekly? You can't even buy a Toyota Tercel, now you have sources. Ah, sources you mean your Gay Federation Club where you are a member of?
The death of the Seqouia would only really kill one segment of shopper. Those with families of 6 or more, who don't want minivans. For families this big a comfy 3rd row is key.
Those that towed very big stuff could move to the Tundra which to my knowledge has variants that are a better tow vehicle than the Seqouia, and can stuff more gear in the back.
The rest would be very happy with a base model LC in the driveway.
Those that towed very big stuff could move to the Tundra which to my knowledge has variants that are a better tow vehicle than the Seqouia, and can stuff more gear in the back.
The rest would be very happy with a base model LC in the driveway.
And except for the hard-core off-roading crowd (which for some reason think 30/20, 8.9 inches is great), people will be more than happy to have a Sequoia in their driveway.
In fact, most people will be more than happy to have the Sequoia as overall the Sequoia is a more well rounded SUV, has more features, is a much better value, and isn't prentiously over priced. Like I have said so many times, each vehicle can do pretty much the exact same thing as the other, with one doing something a little better than the other.
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Yup, the ignore feature is a treat.
The 6.6 and 6.7 liter diesel in the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks in the US serve a purpose, but they are not cutting-edge diesels fit for the majority of non-commercial vehicles. Poor NVH, poor specific output and poor mileage. I owned a 2009 2500HD Duramax and it was a fun truck but BMW generate almost as much power with less than half the capacity. Chucking cubic inches at it does not a good engine make.
How people (who have never driven modern European diesels) can dismiss far better mileage, emissions and torque as massive advantages is laughable.
The Tundra is a 1/2 ton truck, which could never justify a 400CI td as it will be way over it's tow and payload capacity before even half of the engine's limits are approached. The GM truck buyers have been crying out for a 3-4 liter turbo diesel (4 or 6 cyl) for their 1500 trucks and, had GM not run out of money, production wouldn't have halted and they would have one. Offering turbo diesel utility vehicles that will return 30mpg+ is what Europe and ROW have been doing for decades.
Now, gasoline has it's place in performance cars and scooters. As Lloyd Christmas would say, "I can get 70 miles to the gallon on this hog." (and with that Game, Set and Match, I'm leaving this black hole!)
FOUR WHEELING forums are hilarious! The folks there just love diesels as though they were Lynda Carter during the Wonder Women years in the nude! LOL!
If you go to all the other 2,346 auto/truck forums in the US you'll find one common denominator...DIESEL SUCKS!
I can just imagine a diesel:
Subaru Forrester
Mistu EVO
Cadillac Escalade
Ford Taurus
Chevy Corvette
NOBODY in the US wants diesel...nobody wants or expects diesel as a solution for 2025 Cafe. Only about 8% diesel is planned for 2025 Cafe.
What do Toyota Tundra owners want? Their 5.7L 0-60 in 6.5 seconds. They don't want a smelly expensive diesel that does it in 8.5 seconds. WON'T SELL!
SO IH8MUD DOESN'T COUNT. You may think you do but you don't. If YOU want diesel...go buy one. Don't tell the USA new car buyers it's better...they don't buy it. Pun intended. When there's MORE diesel rigs being sold in the US compared to gas then you can tell me I'm nuts.
If you go to all the other 2,346 auto/truck forums in the US you'll find one common denominator...DIESEL SUCKS!
I can just imagine a diesel:
Subaru Forrester
Mistu EVO
Cadillac Escalade
Ford Taurus
Chevy Corvette
NOBODY in the US wants diesel...nobody wants or expects diesel as a solution for 2025 Cafe. Only about 8% diesel is planned for 2025 Cafe.
What do Toyota Tundra owners want? Their 5.7L 0-60 in 6.5 seconds. They don't want a smelly expensive diesel that does it in 8.5 seconds. WON'T SELL!
SO IH8MUD DOESN'T COUNT. You may think you do but you don't. If YOU want diesel...go buy one. Don't tell the USA new car buyers it's better...they don't buy it. Pun intended. When there's MORE diesel rigs being sold in the US compared to gas then you can tell me I'm nuts.
So? Who cares? Every large SUV here in the US has one women inside, on the cell phone, and drving like mad. They don't want diesel-powered CRV's!
FOUR WHEELING forums are hilarious! The folks there just love diesels as though they were Lynda Carter during the Wonder Women years in the nude! LOL!
If you go to all the other 2,346 auto/truck forums in the US you'll find one common denominator...DIESEL SUCKS!
I can just imagine a diesel:
Subaru Forrester
Mistu EVO
Cadillac Escalade
Ford Taurus
Chevy Corvette
NOBODY in the US wants diesel...nobody wants or expects diesel as a solution for 2025 Cafe. Only about 8% diesel is planned for 2025 Cafe.
What do Toyota Tundra owners want? Their 5.7L 0-60 in 6.5 seconds. They don't want a smelly expensive diesel that does it in 8.5 seconds. WON'T SELL!
SO IH8MUD DOESN'T COUNT. You may think you do but you don't. If YOU want diesel...go buy one. Don't tell the USA new car buyers it's better...they don't buy it. Pun intended. When there's MORE diesel rigs being sold in the US compared to gas then you can tell me I'm nuts.
I agree with you.
However, it Toyota was to put a diesel in their Tundra for HD application and there is a market for it, it better be a serious V8 unlike the 4.5. They need minimum 375 hp and 700lb of tq.
At the risk of interrupting both the Sequoia vs LC platform and diesel vs gas superiority debates, the following quote appears to be the source of the rumors.
Sequoia: There is a debate going on inside the company about whether to keep this model Tundra-based or switch it to a car-based platform. But a more likely path is to combine the Sequoia nameplate with Land Cruiser as a base model for the flagship SUV. That would happen in the 2014 model year.
Land Cruiser: No major changes are expected until the 2014 model year. The North American market already gets a softer version of the rugged Land Cruiser sold in Australia, Africa and the Middle East, so a move to the Sequoia platform wouldn't be a big deal.
Read more: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110801/OEM04/308019977/1322#ixzz1U63mxfdb
I would never speculate that the pagemaster's source was simply reading the OPs linked "Automobile" web page. I'm sure he saw the merger rumors and called up his Japanese headquarter sources to provide his valuable feedback and then bring the real truth directly to IH8MUD.
Now, I need to figure out how to automatically ignore people who aren't ignoring pagemaster and quoting him.
Sequoia: There is a debate going on inside the company about whether to keep this model Tundra-based or switch it to a car-based platform. But a more likely path is to combine the Sequoia nameplate with Land Cruiser as a base model for the flagship SUV. That would happen in the 2014 model year.
Land Cruiser: No major changes are expected until the 2014 model year. The North American market already gets a softer version of the rugged Land Cruiser sold in Australia, Africa and the Middle East, so a move to the Sequoia platform wouldn't be a big deal.
Read more: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110801/OEM04/308019977/1322#ixzz1U63mxfdb
I would never speculate that the pagemaster's source was simply reading the OPs linked "Automobile" web page. I'm sure he saw the merger rumors and called up his Japanese headquarter sources to provide his valuable feedback and then bring the real truth directly to IH8MUD.
Now, I need to figure out how to automatically ignore people who aren't ignoring pagemaster and quoting him.
Now, I need to figure out how to automatically ignore people who aren't ignoring pagemaster and quoting him.
I have to say, I have hurt some feelings in the past, but nothing like the degree of rhllc
ROFL - I view you as the annoying fly buzzing around the 200 Series forum, an insect too small to evoke any feelings. But we all know flies like to play in BS. So when you come into view, a good swat is in order to try to keep this place somewhat clean and disease free.
I thought you blocked me?
