toyota diesel conversion

[garret593]

yeah diesel60 i posted that because it took him 6 months and it was a v6. so im not sure why it took that other guy a year when i was a 4 banger? a v6 conversion should be harder like you stated

 

[garret593]

I have no idea why individuals do it. But a huge number of people do.

A lot of people can't even work it out, so they make up numbers. Others use terribly inaccurate methods which give results all over the place and only report the best numbers.

You are personally guilty of the last scenario. Reporting on this very forum of ridiculous mpg claims which turned out to be based on a single short run and fill.

you make it sound like it is hard to calculate the average mpg... all you do is reset the trip meter and then see how many gallons you burned. You just divide the miles traveled by the gallons consumed. its not a secret, my roommate has been doing this ever since he got his little 1.0L geo metro. By no means is he a mathematician, quite the opposite actually. but he can figure it out, so i dont think its that people do not understand the math just because it is so elementary. Maybe people are getting those number, why is that so impossible? diesels are known for getting better mileage, and i find it hard to believe that a little diesel engine would get worse mileage than a 22re, which has less power and thus must work harder to produce the same effect as the OM617. but then again i guess all these people doing it as a conspiracy against you is more believable...

 

[diesel60]

yeah diesel60 i posted that because it took him 6 months and it was a v6. so im not sure why it took that other guy a year when i was a 4 banger? a v6 conversion should be harder like you stated

When you are building everything yourself from scratch and for the first time it takes awhile, especially if you only have a few hrs here and there to work on it. It took me about 3 week's to get all the stuff figured out for the first kit and I have put another 200+hrs into redesigns and getting all the bugs out. Some of those guys tried different cooling setups and had to cut thier core supports too. I'd say if you are lazy and dumb, you could still pull it off in 5/6 days minus your exhaust. Other than wholesaling 2 1" holes for your oilcooler, it's all bolt in.
Brian

 

[Dougal]

you make it sound like it is hard to calculate the average mpg... all you do is reset the trip meter and then see how many gallons you burned. You just divide the miles traveled by the gallons consumed. its not a secret, my roommate has been doing this ever since he got his little 1.0L geo metro. By no means is he a mathematician, quite the opposite actually. but he can figure it out, so i dont think its that people do not understand the math just because it is so elementary.

Oh, you'd be surprised how many people can't do it.

But here is how you get a truely stunning and fictional MPG reading.
Start with a very full and cold tank.
Drive for up to half a tank being as careful as you can.
Go fill up as soon as you can while the tank is hot with the fastest pump you can find.

The combination of single trip, heated fuel in the tank and fast fillup which trips early can give you MPG results that are ahead of reality by up to 50%.
Diesel60 uses a variation on this method: https://forum.ih8mud.com/7130982-post98.html

But the old 3 tank average never lies.

 

[diesel60]

Oh, you'd be surprised how many people can't do it.

But here is how you get a truely stunning and fictional MPG reading.
Start with a very full and cold tank.
Drive for up to half a tank being as careful as you can.
Go fill up as soon as you can while the tank is hot with the fastest pump you can find.

The combination of single trip, heated fuel in the tank and fast fillup which trips early can give you MPG results that are ahead of reality by up to 50%.
Diesel60 uses a variation on this method: https://forum.ih8mud.com/7130982-post98.html

But the old 3 tank average never lies.

Since your so great with number I would of thought that you could read dates also. The link you posted up was from Nov of last year when the owner of the truck had it, I got it in January when he redeployed to Afghanistan as stated earlier and started my own fuel logs. Once again, over 4,000 + miles is more than a few tank full and the mileage numbers are an average of those 4,000+ miles. Why would I waste my time filling up at a half tank? There's no magic or trickery involved here, just some driving tactics employed by just about every senior citizen on the planet...Don't drive fast=good mpg. Pretty simple.

 

[garret593]

Oh, you'd be surprised how many people can't do it.

But here is how you get a truely stunning and fictional MPG reading.
Start with a very full and cold tank.
Drive for up to half a tank being as careful as you can.
Go fill up as soon as you can while the tank is hot with the fastest pump you can find.

The combination of single trip, heated fuel in the tank and fast fillup which trips early can give you MPG results that are ahead of reality by up to 50%.
Diesel60 uses a variation on this method: https://forum.ih8mud.com/7130982-post98.html

But the old 3 tank average never lies.

In my opinion a 50% better than reality seems way high if you ask me, i can see a few percent but 50? that is just outrageous. but you are what, 3000 miles away? how can you know he does this?

anywho, i was wondering if either of you this the way this guy inter-cooled his engine is practical http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/thread-734.html

 

[Dougal]

In my opinion a 50% better than reality seems way high if you ask me, i can see a few percent but 50? that is just outrageous. but you are what, 3000 miles away? how can you know he does this?

I didn't ask you. But when you combine fuel heating (so fill-up volume is lower) with a faster pump (so fill-up volume is lower) and much less than a tank (to maximise the difference from fuel heating and maximise the effect of volume errors) then your MPG is only limited by how inaccurate your method is.
Well known scammers who sell fuel saving devices that don't work use this exact method to "prove" their results.

Suggest you read that whole thread. Including the mpg numbers from people who own the 300sd cars.

anywho, i was wondering if either of you this the way this guy inter-cooled his engine is practical http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/thread-734.html

You are so far away from anything like that, that it's pointless even reading it.
First you need to get the engine in, running, drivable, registered and not overheating.

 

[garret593]

I didn't ask you. But when you combine fuel heating (so fill-up volume is lower) with a faster pump (so fill-up volume is lower) and much less than a tank (to maximise the difference from fuel heating and maximise the effect of volume errors) then your MPG is only limited by how inaccurate your method is.
Well known scammers who sell fuel saving devices that don't work use this exact method to "prove" their results.

Suggest you read that whole thread. Including the mpg numbers from people who own the 300sd cars.


You are so far away from anything like that, that it's pointless even reading it.
First you need to get the engine in, running, drivable, registered and not overheating.

ok, i obviously know that i am no where close to that, im sure anybody who is intelligent enough to drool can see that i was asking about its practicality. i know i have alot of bridges to cross till i get to this point, but thanks captain obvious.

And i see people CAN do this but 50 percent is exaggerated. what proof do you have that he does this? actual proof? because if you dont have anything then you are making false claims just like you are saying he is, and how does that make you better? that sounds hypocritical to me.

and the whole mpg thing is shotty, im not sure the condition of these peoples cars or their driving habits. but i see some people on fuelly getting 28 mpg over the course of 40 fill ups. if that is true then you can factor in the weight difference between the merc and the yota, a manual trans and there has to be some difference right? i'm not saying that i'm going to get 50 miles to the gallon, i just feel like the number is going to be high 20's minimum.

Ive seen numerous people who have made this conversion or are in the process of making it, if it wasn't a good idea why would people still be doing this? i know i asked alot of questions, i just hope you can handle it and not just skip to your favorite one

 

[Dougal]

And i see people CAN do this but 50 percent is exaggerated. what proof do you have that he does this? actual proof? because if you dont have anything then you are making false claims just like you are saying he is, and how does that make you better? that sounds hypocritical to me.

Just Diesel60 saying that he got 37mpg from a single 240 mile trip and refill. Stating this was the basis for his 37mpg claim.
As I said, read that thread. It's all in there.

In a surf/4runner you'll be getting high 20's maximum. Not minimum.

Ive seen numerous people who have made this conversion or are in the process of making it, if it wasn't a good idea why would people still be doing this? i know i asked alot of questions, i just hope you can handle it and not just skip to your favorite one

No-one said the swap was a bad idea.
But going into a project like this with rose tinted glasses beleiving only the most incredibly optimistic figures is a very bad idea.

Especially if you can't afford to write off every single dollar and hour you put in. Worst case is selling an incomplete/undrivable hacked up truck for scrap value.

 

[garret593]

No-one said the swap was a bad idea.
But going into a project like this with rose tinted glasses beleiving only the most incredibly optimistic figures is a very bad idea.

Especially if you can't afford to write off every single dollar and hour you put in. Worst case is selling an incomplete/undrivable hacked up truck for scrap value.

i have not started with anything yet, i have no truck, no engine, im still at stage one and doing research. whats why i was looking ahead to see if the om617 can be pumped up. im not rushing into this gung ho by any means.

 

[missrenaissance]

Ok, back to the original discussion: diesel engines and swapping. I'm doing a swap in my 55 Pig, mostly for economical reasons. The original 11 mpg just doesn't cut it, and after doing the math, even if I only average 20mpg diesel will still be cheaper to run.

I did a bit of research and luckily I have have a family full of diesel mechanics to hash things out with (we're always looking for fun toys to make diesels out of). I drive a dodge cummins, and I love it but the 6bt would be a beast in a small Toyota. The 6bts are neat little machines, but too pricey. 5k for a new engine isn't bad, and you can find box trucks for 3500 around town, but then there's the rest of the drivetrain to sort out. Combine that with the severe rattling and noise, and for my purposes of a daily driver it wouldn't be the best. Nissans, Izuzus and Toyota diesels are out there, but in my area they are more often found in forklifts... New pump, tranny and bits and pieces would add up fast. TDI's are lovely, but of I could find a clean used car with one, I'd drive the car and give up the cruiser not to mention electronics and fussy newer bits.

I went with an OM617: plentiful, parts are EVERYWHERE, they can be driven until the apocalypse, and if I ever want to stop shaving my legs and take up bikram yoga I can run it on used fryer oil and live with the hippies in harmony. There are a few adapters to choose from, which suggests it might be worthwhile... Or there are enough of us crazies out there. Is it the best choice? Maybe not. But given my resources, budget, and needs, it's perfect for me.

Legality: we've registered multiple vehicles as diesels without a big deal. The DMV employees are not car people. They won't look in an engine bay and immediately know what year your engine is, nor will they care. CHP won't care either if you're ordered to have a vehicle inspection. They check the little box next to "diesel", run vins to make sure it's not stolen, and away you go. Smog (here in Cali) only applies to vehicles 98 and newer, and they only check 2 things: smoke and performance mods.

 

[missrenaissance]

The 6bts are neat little machines, but too pricey. 5k for a new engine isn't bad, and you can find box trucks for 3500 around town, but then there's the rest of the drivetrain to sort out. Combine that with the severe rattling and noise, and for my purposes of a daily driver it wouldn't be the best.

Grr, totally meant 4bt here... Sorry

 

[garret593]

Ok, back to the original discussion: diesel engines and swapping. I'm doing a swap in my 55 Pig, mostly for economical reasons. The original 11 mpg just doesn't cut it, and after doing the math, even if I only average 20mpg diesel will still be cheaper to run.

I did a bit of research and luckily I have have a family full of diesel mechanics to hash things out with (we're always looking for fun toys to make diesels out of). I drive a dodge cummins, and I love it but the 6bt would be a beast in a small Toyota. The 6bts are neat little machines, but too pricey. 5k for a new engine isn't bad, and you can find box trucks for 3500 around town, but then there's the rest of the drivetrain to sort out. Combine that with the severe rattling and noise, and for my purposes of a daily driver it wouldn't be the best. Nissans, Izuzus and Toyota diesels are out there, but in my area they are more often found in forklifts... New pump, tranny and bits and pieces would add up fast. TDI's are lovely, but of I could find a clean used car with one, I'd drive the car and give up the cruiser not to mention electronics and fussy newer bits.

I went with an OM617: plentiful, parts are EVERYWHERE, they can be driven until the apocalypse, and if I ever want to stop shaving my legs and take up bikram yoga I can run it on used fryer oil and live with the hippies in harmony. There are a few adapters to choose from, which suggests it might be worthwhile... Or there are enough of us crazies out there. Is it the best choice? Maybe not. But given my resources, budget, and needs, it's perfect for me.

Legality: we've registered multiple vehicles as diesels without a big deal. The DMV employees are not car people. They won't look in an engine bay and immediately know what year your engine is, nor will they care. CHP won't care either if you're ordered to have a vehicle inspection. They check the little box next to "diesel", run vins to make sure it's not stolen, and away you go. Smog (here in Cali) only applies to vehicles 98 and newer, and they only check 2 things: smoke and performance mods.

Thank you! i have been wondering about the whole diesel smog since it it pre 1998, does that mean after the first time you are free to go and do not have to worry about smog again? I feel the same way, you can find pieces or even whole engines all over the place. LOL and the hippie talk

 

[PhrogsPhorever]

Thank you! i have been wondering about the whole diesel smog since it it pre 1998, does that mean after the first time you are free to go and do not have to worry about smog again? I feel the same way, you can find pieces or even whole engines all over the place. LOL and the hippie talk

Until Cali changes the rules again in an attempt to force older diesels off the road

Sent from my iPhone using IH8MUD

 

[garret593]

Until Cali changes the rules again in an attempt to force older diesels off the road

Sent from my iPhone using IH8MUD

well as long as i beat them to the punch i should have nothing to worry about... at least i hope so. but i can see them doing something like that

 

[unorthodox]

Since nobody has bothered... EPA estimates the OM617 at about 22mpg combined...

There are a ton on the road here in DFW and the two owners I've spoken to say they get about 22mpg, I have never heard of one getting as high as 40, even the guy in Austin I was emailing with back before this swap was trendy never even dreamed of getting that high in his 81 pickup.

 

[unorthodox]

What RPM does the OM617 make its peak torque? What you need to do is play with one of those gear calculators and see what transmission/diff/tire combination lets you drive in your power band. I know the TDI with most of the toyota 5 speeds (R151 being the best) with 4.10's and 33's is just living in its sweet spot, the engine is about 50lbs lighter than the 22r and contrary to popular belief the curb weight of a 1.9tdi Jetta and a 1st gen pickup is within about a hundred pounds favoring the Jetta!

The OM617 to me is heavy and anemic, its reliable because like most toyota engines it doesent make enough power to hurt itself. For an expedition rig it could be a great swap where you will stay below 55mpg on 3rd world roads (places and speeds you still find them with a bajillion miles), but for a DD I think it would handle like a 200lb heavier 22r.

That's my unprofessional opinion from being in the same place you were thinking about the swap.

 

[garret593]

What RPM does the OM617 make its peak torque? What you need to do is play with one of those gear calculators and see what transmission/diff/tire combination lets you drive in your power band. I know the TDI with most of the toyota 5 speeds (R151 being the best) with 4.10's and 33's is just living in its sweet spot, the engine is about 50lbs lighter than the 22r and contrary to popular belief the curb weight of a 1.9tdi Jetta and a 1st gen pickup is within about a hundred pounds favoring the Jetta!

The OM617 to me is heavy and anemic, its reliable because like most toyota engines it doesent make enough power to hurt itself. For an expedition rig it could be a great swap where you will stay below 55mpg on 3rd world roads (places and speeds you still find them with a bajillion miles), but for a DD I think it would handle like a 200lb heavier 22r.

That's my unprofessional opinion from being in the same place you were thinking about the swap.

so you were thinking about this swap and decided not to i take it?

 

[Dougal]

i have not started with anything yet, i have no truck, no engine, im still at stage one and doing research. whats why i was looking ahead to see if the om617 can be pumped up. im not rushing into this gung ho by any means.

Sure it can be pumped up. Search for Myna in Finland. The pump mods will cost you more than anything else in the swap.

But examples of high power reliable OM617's are very difficult to find.

 

[unorthodox]

Yeah I was/am. The OM617 is an epic engine but its old and weak and I didnt feel like it would makw me happy in the long run since id like to dd/wheel my 79 pickup for a long time. For me the TDI gives great mpg out of the box, less size and weight, with more hp and torque than the 22r I have (which already drives fine for me) and about on par with the 3.4. The swap also appears easier to me. IMHO I have never heard if a "bad" diesel engine, so go with the one you can find, afford, and like.

Now in a perfect world Id go with a Delta Hawk v4 2 stroke mechanical TDI