To the Sandpoint MUDer that helped me tonight.

[snowbored]

Hope this isn't breaking forum etiquette, but I wanted to throw out a thank you to the BJ owner who helped me tonight in Sandpoint. I should have grabbed your name or nick, but I was so bummed to be stranded I wasn't thinking. Thanks man. After it cooled down it started without a problem. Now I just need to solve this issue by Saturday before my wife gets back in town Anyone have thoughts on why a SBC powered FJ60 would not stop turning over when I try to start it so that I have to disconnect the battery, and then doesn't start at all when I reconnect? I guess I start at the ignition switch and work out from there? Wish I had my manuals already.

 

[Joe Egolf]

sbc starter

Check the startersolenoid and plunger contacts etc etc IMOP

 

[MANUCHAO]

Starter/solenoid might be over heating ?
My SBC would start but when it gets really hot it would not turn.. once I let it cool off it starts no problem....
I put a heat wrap shield and that has help some......

Good luck..

 

[Elbert]

Are you saying the starter is not engaging or working at all? Do you have headers? Headers are known to cook starters on SBC. If no other obvious issues, then I would suspect the starter solnoid especially if you run headers. There are some heat sheilds out there for starters,

 

[snowbored]

Thanks MANUCHAO and Elbert. The starter engages and won't stop, just turns the engine over and over (thankfully the previous owner installed an engine kill switch, engine+starter running=ugly scary noises). I had to disconnect the battery to get the starter to stop. When I reconnected the battery, the starter wouldn't start at all, but turning the ignition did put a huge load on the volt meter. After a minute, trying to start resulted in it not stopping turning over again. No headers, but I have dual exhausts and on that side it's really close to the starter. I'll pick up a heat shield and a new solenoid tomorrow and check out the ignition switch as well (though wiring is a pain without a Toyota manual yet). The wife is out of town, so it would be nice if she didn't need to know my new toy left me stranded for the second time in a week (first time the transfer case linkage wouldn't shift out of neutral) so I guess I'll grasp at all straws and hope one works.

 

[Elbert]

I think you may have a wiring problem. Don't know why someone installed a Kill switch? Sounds like you have an old school setup with Carb. DO you have a coil or HEI distributor? Basically when you remove power to the distibutor or coil the engine quits running.

I have a SBC too, but its a newer model (vortec 5.7). If HEI you might want to look up something along the lines of 1979 Z28 for reference on the wiring or if using a coil you'll have to go further back into the 70's.

The kill switch business leads me to believe someone got creative with the wiring. Basically you need the wiring color to find out what wires use to run to the POS and NEG side of the Toyota Coil, you then could see what these wires are connected to. Downey has a FJ60 swap booklet you can get...it has this information in it. I don't think you have a solonoid problem but .... replace it anyway and see.

I can look on my truck and tell you what wires mine have....but it would be over the weekend some time. I'm using the pos wire that use to feed the coil to tell the ECM to start the truck, it also is used to signal the electric fans that engine is on. The pos wire to the coil is controlled by the ing switch. You can eaisly test this with a test light to see what its doing.

You have two things to look at .... the GM wiring on the engine and the Toyota wiring that use to control the I-6. I'm fairly sure you just need to find the pos wire that feeds the coil on the I-6 and see what the pervious owner did with that in regard to your SBC setup. I forgot to mention the obvious wires that power the starter... you may want to check that out... The toyota OEM starter harness is easily modfied to work on a GM starter... check out the connections at the starter...one big wire to the main pos connection and one small single wire to the solnoid as I recall. The small wire triggers the starter.

 

[bridges]

I've had repeat SBC starter/solenoid heat soak issues as well. Symptoms have included: hot-no start, low voltage readings, alternator death.

I'm running coolish at @185-195 degrees but the wiring locations appear to be affecting overall electrical stability.

I'm not a lot of help here but just seconding the wiring research the others have suggested.

Another fix specifically for the solenoid is to essentially bypass it with at fender mounted Ford solenoid that triggers a 'jumped' chevy solenoid still mounted to the starter.
Here is the link to a diagram on that: LINK

 

[snowbored]

Thanks again. The Downey book isn't downloadable I'll order for later, but right now am working on getting this done before the wife get's home tomorrow. Is it bad if the cables to the starter are routed next to the exhaust manifold and the plastic is all burnt off? Looks like I'll need to trace like you outline above, rewire and reroute, this time not next to/against the manifold, and replace the solenoid? I think if I have it out I'll just do the starter too. It's HEI.

 

[bridges]

....I think if I have it out I'll just do the starter too. It's HEI.

Just an FYI, took me a little while to figure this out but to remove and replace the starter I had to go up and over the axle with it and bring it out just behind the radiator. It's less than a 30 minute job now though. Also, It's easier for me to unhook and subsequently replace the wiring to the solenoid with the starter loose (not mounted).

 

[MANUCHAO]

I have it on PDF... shoot me a PM if you want it....

 

[augirthedude]

I am a fellow mudder living in Sandpoint also if you need help with your fj PM me and I will assist you with trouble shooting Aug

 

[Elbert]

You don't want your wires routed right next to the manifolds. You might have two wires touching here which may be your problem of the starter running all the time once engaged. Due to the starter's location ...its a hot area. I would route away from heat sources the best you can.

I like my SBC, but getting running right is a challenge. Sometimes I wish I had went the "old school" route with a carb setup....oh it would have saved some $$$ and aggrivation

 

[snowbored]

Replaced the burnt wires and re-routed them, and replaced the starter and solenoid. I'll try tracing down the ignition wiring in the morning and see about changing that out as well. Nice thing about the conversion, I wouldn't have been able to just pick of the Toyota parts in town.. I think I resolved the problem, and the old starter needed to be shimmed anyways, so I'm ahead of the game now. I'll goto a junk yard later and pull a heat shield. I specifically looked for a FJ that had been converted to carburated, because I have had zero luck working myself on the newer stuff, and I want simple as possible if going to the middle of nowhere. I had a Blazer that would just die out randomly that never was able to get fixed, even after pouring out more than it was worth.

 

[ntsqd]

Not that it's part of your current problem, but something to look at given the HEI system is how it gets its power. Large cap HEI's are power hogs, there is a reason that the stock GM power wire is a 10 gauge. This is one of those things that isn't well known, but can bite you. It is the reason that the stock modules have heat sink grease under them. It isn't because the dizzy body gets hot.
If your ignition power supply wire isn't as big I would suggest going to a relay and pull ignition power right from the battery.

A Crane or MSD spark box conversion can alleviate the problem, but they need to be wired to not use the stock module at all, just the stock pick-up coil.