Tire Cages

[JohnnyC]

This video was in another thread on Mud.

Has anybody had a tire and or wheel fail like this on an SUV / light truck tire?

I can see something like this happening if the tire was inflated to 100-120 psi on a damaged tire... but 28-33 psi?

I thought it was a bit misleading...I wonder how many PSI they went to

 

[IBCRUSN]

Not very often on US trucks and SUVs because they aren't sold with split rims or two piece bolt together wheels. Now days you'd be hard pressed to find a tire shop that will touch them that doesn't work on over the road rigs.

Based on the number of hoses they had hooked up to the tire I'd say this was a rigged training video to show what can/will happen if you don't assemble the wheels properly. Even so, if a wheel isn't built up properly it doesn't take much PSI to have a similar effect. I recall seeing a similar type video when I was in A&P school where a wheel was assembled with a couple of explosive bolt cutters, had dummys on both sides and the effect was dramatic because they didn't use a tire cage. Both dummies were pretty much cut in half.

 

[JohnnyC]

there other video

They use a 2 piece rim and show it coming apart

they dont even mention that split rims are even a contributing factor to a failure

the most common fails are
16.5" rims (mismatching)
Zippers (sidewall belt failure)
sidewall rupture
overinflated runflats
bead failures
sudden release of air & debris

 

[Jetboy]

I worked at a tire shop when I was in HS. One of the other shops had a guy die after a passenger car tire had a bead break when inflating on a tire machine. Tires can be pretty dangerous if things go wrong.

Our shop did have a cage, but we only used it for split rims and some heavy equipment tires with two or three piece rims. Otherwise it would take a lot of extra time unless you have a setup like that where there's an auto fill function.

 

[e9999]

people often underestimate the forces generated by mild pressure. Consider a square steel plate that is 10" by 10". Like a large book. Now 35 psi behind it. Low pressure, like a regular tire. Do you think you could hold it in place with your hands?




































Well now you have a 3500 lbs force exterted on the plate. Picture a car on a pedestal on top of the plate and you under it. Do you still think you could hold it with your hands?

 

[JohnnyC]

I worked at a tire shop when I was in HS. One of the other shops had a guy die after a passenger car tire had a bead break when inflating on a tire machine. Tires can be pretty dangerous if things go wrong.

Our shop did have a cage, but we only used it for split rims and some heavy equipment tires with two or three piece rims. Otherwise it would take a lot of extra time unless you have a setup like that where there's an auto fill function.

so even though a guy had died when inflating a passenger tire you were still not using a cage except for split rims?

 

[Ebag333]

so even though a guy had died when inflating a passenger tire you were still not using a cage except for split rims?

That's a fluke. No one uses cages on non-split rims. Many shops don't use cages even on split rims. Rarely does someone get injured or die from them.

There's a point where you have to consider the cost to benefit. If it costs $100k per year to use a cage, $100k in payout for a death, and on average 1 person dies per 10 years, do you think that they're going to install cages?

You have to be real careful with split rims, but they're far less dangerous than other things. And if you're smart about it, take precautions (like making sure that it's completely deflated) there's really very little risk. One tip I've heard is stick a piece of wire into the tire valve (after removing the valve stem) to make sure that there isn't a piece of debris or ice blocking it (making it seem like it's done deflating when it's not).

This video was in another thread on Mud.

Has anybody had a tire and or wheel fail like this on an SUV / light truck tire?

I can see something like this happening if the tire was inflated to 100-120 psi on a damaged tire... but 28-33 psi?

I thought it was a bit misleading...I wonder how many PSI they went to

My guess is that the tire wasn't bolted together (or very very loosely bolted). The multiple air hoses are to rapidly dump air into it to get up to 28-33 PSI before it lets go. If they filled it slower, it'd find a weak spot and start leaking out and never get that high.

But that's not what happens when you're disassembling the tire, so they have to mimic the results, not necessarily the circumstances.

 

[Jetboy]

No, the tire that exploded was not a split rim. We always used the cage for those, and would only accept them if they were in very good condition. Actually the manager would come back and personally handle the split rims.

The tire that killed the guy was just a regular car tire. I think it was an older one that was just a flat repair, but I'm not sure if I'm remember that correctly. I think it was just a freak accident. It was the only injury I had ever heard of from something like that and the tire shop had about 30 locations, for many years. I think it was a really rare accident, and probably a case of someone fixing a tire they should have thrown out. Not sure though, I wasn't there, just heard about it.

 

[IBCRUSN]

That's a fluke. No one uses cages on non-split rims. Many shops don't use cages even on split rims. Rarely does someone get injured or die from them.

Sure those that either don't care about their employees or disregard any preventive measures to be taken to alleviate potential insurance claims. You may/may not be correct on injuries and deaths but how easy will that research be?

There's a point where you have to consider the cost to benefit. If it costs $100k per year to use a cage, $100k in payout for a death, and on average 1 person dies per 10 years, do you think that they're going to install cages?

WTF? How would it cost $100,000 per year to use a tire cage? They can be had from a couple hundred $$ to a few thousand but $100K, labor included? I've worked in a few tire shops and every one had a cage even when they wouldn't touch a split rim. Every aircraft service center I've worked for or managed had cages as well.

I'm not even going to touch the death payout statement.

 

[Ebag333]

Sure those that either don't care about their employees or disregard any preventive measures to be taken to alleviate potential insurance claims. You may/may not be correct on injuries and deaths but how easy will that research be?



WTF? How would it cost $100,000 per year to use a tire cage? They can be had from a couple hundred $$ to a few thousand but $100K, labor included? I've worked in a few tire shops and every one had a cage even when they wouldn't touch a split rim. Every aircraft service center I've worked for or managed had cages as well.

I'm not even going to touch the death payout statement.

Those numbers are purely WAG's, but used to illustrat a point.

It's not going to be cost effective to use a cage, likely even for split rims. Using a cage slows down the process quite a bit, and is really completely unnecessary even for split rims if the person doing the work knows what they're doing (trained).

And if you think there isn't a value assigned for a life....well, you don't know insurance and lawyers very well. And $100k is actually a very reasonable number to assign, given that lots of people don't get more than basic life insurance which is often only $60k-$80k. (And before you claim "wrongful death!" don't forget that the employee likely didn't follow the procedure on split rims, which will seriously hamper most wrongful death suits.)

I agree that a cage is a minimal cost (both purchase and cost to use wise), but I don't think that $100k a year would be unreasonable for a good size tire shop if they were putting every tire in there. I think you could reach that number rather quickly, given that it'll add a good couple of minutes of work to each tire.

 

[74monster]

Those numbers are purely WAG's, but used to illustrat a point.

It's not going to be cost effective to use a cage, likely even for split rims. Using a cage slows down the process quite a bit, and is really completely unnecessary even for split rims if the person doing the work knows what they're doing (trained).

.)QUOTE] Do you work in the tire industry or are you an armchair expert? I've been in the tire industry for 31 year(from clean up to service truck to manager) our company cages EVERY medium truck tire split rim or not( failure to do so 1st offence 3day suspension 2nd termination. if the manager allows no cages he has the same consequences no exceptions!) you are playing with a BOMB. remember that 35 pounds per square inch of pressure!

 

[Jetboy]

Tires are dangerous, but not "that" dangerous.

Do you worry about exploding tires when you air up after a trail run? I seat beads without thinking twice. I don't fret about changing a tire when I get a flat. With the exception of split rims, I think a failure is an extremely low probability event.

Much lower than the risk you take driving to work at the tire shop every day.

 

[JohnnyC]

I have a set of splits on my truck..love them...its annoying when i hear of all split rims lumped together as all being dangerous...

and a fear video showing a split rim exploding due to overinflating is throwing another log on the fire to try and sell your product

semi rims, heavy equiptment and multi piece rims are a much different rim than the toyota split rims.

 

[fieldsken1]

i was having a semi tire fixed a couple of years ago and it blew up and blew one of the windows in the building out. it made a big boom

 

[Ebag333]

Do you work in the tire industry or are you an armchair expert? I've been in the tire industry for 31 year(from clean up to service truck to manager) our company cages EVERY medium truck tire split rim or not( failure to do so 1st offence 3day suspension 2nd termination. if the manager allows no cages he has the same consequences no exceptions!) you are playing with a BOMB. remember that 35 pounds per square inch of pressure!

Lets not be melodramatic here. Yes, if you royally screw up and don't release pressure before disassembling it's a bomb....but that's true with any tire (split rims just make it worse).

I don't work in the industry, so I guess I'm an "armchair expert." That being said, since I do own split rims, I know a thing or two about them. Most of the tire shops around here won't touch them (thanks to videos like the above), but interestingly enough the tire shops that do don't use cages (for any of their tires, including industrial and semi).

I actually asked about the dangers of split rims, and yes they were able to tell me a story about a guy who took off his head by taking apart a forklift tire without deinflating it first. That being said, that was the only guy that anyone knew of even getting hurt, so that's like 6 guys with probably over a century experience (and dozens of tire shops) between them.

Point is, injuries/deaths with split rims do happen, but they're rare and they happen when someone screws ups. It's very easy to have zero risk disassembling a split rim...you just make absolutely sure there is no pressure in it. If there's no pressure, then it's a dud.

I think that there a lot of things far more dangerous than working on split rims. Like crawling under the rig when it's up on jack stands (there's a thread here on Mud about a stand failing and crushing someones chest). You can ensure that a split rim is harmless by making sure there is 0 PSI. You can't make sure a rig is weightless by reducing the weight to 0.

 

[74monster]

was not trying to be melodramatic, but when I was 16 I was airing up a grader tire and checking the air when the back bead let go(broken bead wires) it blew me about 10 feet in the air and about 25 feet across the shop. It also blew the back right out of my coveralls.over the years I've witnessed 100 plus zippers of tubeless semi tires and ONE split rim blow on the truck from a cracked gutter section( and that one was being pulled off the truck when it blew)

the reason most shops won't touch split rims is that they don't know how to fix them. The ones that don't use the cages are the ones with all the old timers that are still stuck in the 70's when it comes to safety.

Just in Alberta alone in the past 5-7 year there have been 2 fatalities and 2 serious injuries from airing up semi tires( in all cases they were tubeless, not restrained and improperly trained employees)

I think you are missing the point in the video they were airing UP the tires when they blew,not taking them apart with air in them.

I personally do not have a problem working with split rims, but for most of us in regards to our 4x4s don't have to worry about zippers, split rims coming apart etc. but semi tires deserve a respect when dealing with airing them up.
I agree about crawling under vehicles with or with out jack stands is also dangerous........ but then so is getting out of the shower

 

[Wile E Coyote]

Ah, the lore of the split rim...brings me back to my early Army days driving M929's. It was an ALL day process breaking down and then remounting those 10 tires, all the while hearing the Motor Sgt's stories about guys cut in half and blown across the motorpool when a split rim let loose.