Tire balancing problems on my 99 4Runner alloy rims

[Duane]

Well I bought some new tires better than a month ago and thought my rims were buggered as they would shake the front end going down the highway and even getting on the brakes at times would cause a pulsation and shudder.
I took them back to where I bought them, Kal Tire, they rebalanced them again with rotating the tires a bit on the rims even and no luck again.
So next I traded them up for some new Michelins and then same problem again.

Anyhow thought why not take them to Costco yesterday and they rebalanced them on their machine.. tada... suddenly I have a smooth running vehicle again. The Costco tire tech says" I had 2 handfuls of weights that I took off"
Kal Tire mentions the cones they use on their balancing machine hits the rim up further rather than contacting the center hole properly on this style of rim. I know several tire techs worked on them so either they have a poor balancing machine or lack the experience to balance a tire on this factory Toyota rim. At any rate what a pain in the arse.
Now I have lifetime balancing , flat repairs and rotates from a company that can't balance my tires.
Anyone had a similar problem with the factory alloy rims?
What if anything should I say to my local Kal Tire dealer? I have considered a few choice words

 

[FlatlandTRD]

Yeah, in other places this is where people point out that our rims are lug centric, and most of the balancing machines are hub centric. Of course then someone chimes in that there's no such thing as lug centric. Even though I don't have a hub that my wheels mount on, Toyota put out a TSB on balancing these wheels, and there are several write-ups on how these wheels can't be balanced without the proper machine. I argued with firestone about this, and long story short, I showed them the TSB and told them to make a copy while they chewed on their crow. Moral of the story, you shouldn't have to tell people how to do their jobs, but if you want it done right, then you either have to do it, or provide the instruction for them to do it.

Glad you finally got yours balanced.

 

[FlatlandTRD]

link to lug centric info

Okay, found the link I was thinking about..
Vibration Problems

Everyone with these vehicles should be familiar with today's reading assignment. Plus it's fun to rattle off info the "tire experts" are oblivious to.

A TSB can be found here...
http://www.ih8mud.com/tech/tsb/ToyotaLandCruiser/tsu00296.pdf
And yes, it refers to a hub centric portion of the wheel, but points out you can't get a decent balance without the flange (studs to center with the lug nuts, to the cone).

 

[pepsilvr]

Yep, same situation. Had PepBoys balance those things 5x before I learned about the whole hub vs lug centric thing. PepBoys actually told me all my rims were "out of round" and wrote on the paperwork "customer is aware rims are bent."

The sad part of this whole ting is Toyota doesn't even know about this depending on which dealer you go to. I had to try 3 dealers and mention their own TSB to them before I found one that knew what to do AND had the proper equipment.

So, yes, I have lifetime balancing at a place that I can't use it also.

 

[Duane]

Hey thanks guys... I think I was starting to annoy this tire shop and the neighbors must have thought I rotated my tires every week in the front driveway.
The tire shop wanted to sell me new rims but I was jacking up my rig, setting up blocks and a long prybar as a reference to check for runout up and down and from side to side. I wasn't seeing much of anything in the rims but the first set of tires had a certain amount of up and down runout on 3 tires.

I assume a set of chromed steel rims are immune to this and this just applies to the alloy rims?

Well now to see if I can find any local tire shop with this Hunter GSP-9700 balancer and a Haweka adapter kit.

Thanks a bunch Flatland!

Well I located a Hunter unit at a GM dealership in a City a hour and a half away, if they are still open I'm sure they are going to want me coming in with a Toyota to get my wheels balanced.. perhaps I will see if the local Toyota dealership will get this adapter kit in and a regular balancer should work I'm hoping.

 

[austintaco]

I just ran into this issue when I put on Limited 4runner wheels on my Tacoma. I had Firestone mount and balance them and I told them that they were lug centric and to use the right adapter. Well, I had the shakes, so I went back, and back and back.
Finally, I went to Discount Tire and they immediately pointed out that the lugs were wrong for the rim (acorn versus mag shank) and after I got a set of lugs, they balanced them with the correct lug centric adapter...problem solved.
I went to Firestone, and I explained nicely what happened, and they refunded my money.

 

[Duane]

I went to Discount Tire and they immediately pointed out that the lugs were wrong for the rim (acorn versus mag shank) and after I got a set of lugs, they balanced them with the correct lug centric adapter...problem solved.

acorn versus mag shank.... any simple way to explain these 2 terms as I'm not familiar with them?

 

[austintaco]

Acorn style lug nuts are rounded or beveled on the side going to the rim while Mag shanks are straight and have washer attached to them. Here's a good thread on the subject.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/287373-lug-nuts-80-series-rims-going-60-a.html

 

[Duane]

Hey thanks austintaco, I'm smelling what you're stepping in now!
I just figured you call them flat or tapered lugs, now I know a real fancy name for them.. just another thing learned today.

I had to buy some acorns for my steel rims I bought as the mag shanks wouldn't work from my alloy rims.
See sounded perty educated huh

cheers
D

 

[XT Toyota]

I agree that these dealers need to know their own product. Even when you have a properly balanced tire/wheel leaving the shop after a few weeks they are truely not balanced. With tire wear and debris lodging in between the tread they can be out of balance as early as the day they were balanced. save your time and frustration and use a "balancing bead" compound.

 

[pepsilvr]

I agree that these dealers need to know their own product. Even when you have a properly balanced tire/wheel leaving the shop after a few weeks they are truely not balanced. With tire wear and debris lodging in between the tread they can be out of balance as early as the day they were balanced. save your time and frustration and use a "balancing bead" compound.

Is this from experience? I never heard of these "balancing beads" before. I took a look and they certainly look interesting.

 

[pillguy]

great post thanks

 

[Family 40's]

Alright, so I have been a tire tech for 2 years now, and hope to continue my trade at home in Washington State, and what I have to say about the subject is: Honestly most of your come backs come from an incompetent tire tech. We have road force balancers that you have talked about, ones that help with the hub centric versus then lug centric and those balancers are not that off from each other. Honestly, my guess is these techs you are going to are not using the correct technique to balance the wheels. The techs are probably using hub adapters that are too small for your size of wheel and they balance you're wheels with the wrong adapter, I've seen it so many times... I have done test and the older machines balance the same using the same adapters as the brand new machines as long as you measure the rim correctly and you use the correct adapter for the wheel, there is no difference between old school and new school. I know for a fact that we have the adapters for toyota wheels, however that doesn't mean people use the proper technique or part to balancing them... It may zero but it is off because it sits differently on the hub then the machine and they chose not to use the larger hub piece to balance "you're" wheels. I know you might think that where ever you take your truck they will take the extra time to ensure that your wheels/tires are balanced correctly but you are wrong. It all depends on who is working that day and who want to take the extra time to set up the machine correctly to ensure that this "toyota" wheel will be balanced correctly... If YOU came into tiresplus in Grand Forks ND...(I realize there are rarely any toyotas here, bear with me) I have always made a point that you're wheels/tires are balanced correctly and it shows, considering I have never had any come backs.

Honestly this all goes back to the fact, if you can't do it yourself its probably not going to be done correctly... Its best to have a friend in the industry that cares about your vehicle, it pays to know this sort of person, and if you don't honestly you are throwing up some sort of hail marry!

Just my .02.