Time to buy a new starter?

[lechnito]

My cruiser has been getting harder and harder to start up over the last 6 months. Fast forward to yesterday and I couldn't get it running without climbing under the vehicle and banging on the starter housing with a tire iron.

I picked up a starter rebuild kit from Toyota today, dropped the starter out of my rig, and noticed some damage to the gear teeth:

This is a Bosch SR128X installation date unknown.

Are these teeth too damaged to continue using? Should I buy a reman'd denso starter? What do you guys think?

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

Pretty rough. How deep is the engagement to the opposing gear? I might ditch it if it was my decision.

 

[lechnito]

I don't think I have a good way to measure how effectively these teeth can engage with the flywheel, but I suspect the engagement is far from optimal.

I believe the problem I had starting up yesterday was probably the electrical contacts. However, even when the starter is cranking normally, it takes an unusually long amount of time for the engine to catch. Perhaps the damaged teeth are slipping off the flywheel, requiring more time/starter revolutions to get the flywheel up to speed?

Either way, I'm leaning toward ditching it now too. Where's the best place to buy a Nippon Denso starter these days?

 

[rrv333]

I've rebuilt the starter on my 62 twice with no issues but the gear teeth were good condition so I'd ditch your current one.

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

Am I correct in thinking that the starter has bushings as part of the way it gets current? If it's having that much trouble could be they have met their end. (I pulled my carb fan off and open it up and it's bushings still had tons of material left to them and I believe that's the same sort of piece of equipment.)
You may be able to buy a decent used one from CruiserParts in NH. I bought one years back from them for my old truck for $50 w/ a year warranty.

 

[Landpimp]

me, I'd probably get a re-man from Toyota for about $100-120, never had to replace one yet. (think I have used a half dozen of them) Toyota wants a core, so its way easier(and probably cheaper) to pick it up local, even if it cost a few bucks more or just plan on eating the $30 core charge if buying online

you want 28100 60070-84 (-84 means its a re-man)

However, I do have a Mean Green on 2 Cruisers, not because I thought they were better, but because I got a good deal on them and I got to keep my OEM ND cores so I could rebuilt them.......well years latter guess what? never rebuilt them or had the need or motivation (and honestly, I'd just buy a OEM reman anyway! ....hahaha)

 

[lechnito]

@NeverGiveUpYota, yes I believe the starter motor has brushes. The initial electrical issue I had yesterday could well have been the brushes I guess.

@Landpimp, thank you so much for the part number! Getting a new/reman'd OE starter from Toyota is the route that I've decided to take. It must be nice getting a deal on Mean Green stuff; I was looking at the MG starter earlier today but I didn't want to pay $300 for it. I already splurged on a MG alternator two years ago though and haven't had any problems.

 

[portlandcruiser]

I just did mine recently. Remanufactured Denso. Working out fine.

 

[Landpimp]

The MG was an online deal someone posted, $180 each (shpped) so I got one for a spare.

The MG sound just like the ND when starting, no clue is they are all that, but I put a used MG on over 10 years ago on my 82 fj40 and it's still working

These (gear reduction) starters work all the way back to early F motors, put one in 64 when the old starter died, very nice upgrade

[QUOTE="lechnito, post: 11076556, member

@Landpimp, thank you so much for the part number! Getting a new/reman'd OE starter from Toyota is the route that I've decided to take. It must be nice getting a deal on Mean Green stuff; I was looking at the MG starter earlier today but I didn't want to pay $300 for it. I already splurged on a MG alternator two years ago though and haven't had any problems.[/QUOTE]

 

[Comet]

With that much metal rubbed off the starter, I would be inclined to turn the entire flywheel around to check for damage/wear too.

 

[lechnito]

The section of flywheel that was revealed when I removed the starter didn't show any damage. I'll work on spinning the whole thing later today.

My ignition apparently has an issue where the key can get stuck in the start position until you physically turn it back counter clockwise to the correct position. This happened to me earlier this week and at least a few other times in the last two years. Fingers crossed that the bosch metal is softer than the flywheel and this is what caused the damage to the starter teeth.

 

[Landpimp]

try getting a new key cut from the vin code

The section of flywheel that was revealed when I removed the starter didn't show any damage. I'll work on spinning the whole thing later today.

My ignition apparently has an issue where the key can get stuck in the start position until you physically turn it back counter clockwise to the correct position. This happened to me earlier this week and at least a few other times in the last two years. Fingers crossed that the bosch metal is softer than the flywheel and this is what caused the damage to the starter teeth.

 

[lechnito]

@Landpimp: Huh, you think it's an issue with the key and not something in the ignition column?

I already have two Toyota key blanks p/n 90999-00212 that I've been meaning to get cut. Didn't realize the dealer could reproduce the cut based on VIN though. Do I just show up to the dealer with the blanks, proof of ownership, and ask the parts department to create new keys?

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

@Landpimp: Huh, you think it's an issue with the key and not something in the ignition column?

I already have two Toyota key blanks p/n 90999-00212 that I've been meaning to get cut. Didn't realize the dealer could reproduce the cut based on VIN though. Do I just show up to the dealer with the blanks, proof of ownership, and ask the parts department to create new keys?

I was under the impression the vins were all inaccessible at this point. There was a guy in the 'what did you do w/ your 60' section a few weeks back who had new ones cut, I can't recall the writer tho. @beno I think spoke up on his pix of new keys he'd gotten cut, maybe he can give you some insight.

 

[Landpimp]

not sure if they can still pull up the key code using the VIN or not, but if not, the key code is on the passenger side key cylinder, it will be a letter followed by 4 numbers, like K1234, with that they can cut a new key. Dealer should have key blanks, I have never been charged for keys at my dealer

just this last weekend my mom was having issues on her 80 series, key would not move or if it did it look many many tries. She was sure it was in the ignition, both her keys were very worn, I still had a new key from when she bought it, that's all it needed, dealer is making her 3 new keys from the code they have on file.

 

[lechnito]

Final Update:

I stopped by the local dealership this afternoon to pick up the reman'd starter and to get some new keys cut.

The guy behind the parts counter was initially confused when I pulled out the two key blanks, photo id, proof of ownership, and the passenger side lock cylinder. But I think he was a little impressed when his more experienced colleague told him that I just saved them from having to do a 5 step VIN search process. Special thanks to @Landpimp and @NeverGiveUpYota for walking me through this stuff.

The new starter was pretty easy to install, but I really screwed up the wiring configuration and my engine bay started smoking fiercely as soon as I hooked up the positive battery cable! After clearing out the smoke from my garage and some delicate trial and error, I finally got the grounding and relay cables put back into the right order.

So the good news is that my cruiser no longer sounds like a constipated old man on a roller coaster when I start it up. The bad news is that the electrical short I created melted the braided brake hose on my front axle. I consider myself extremely fortunate that this is the extent of the damage:

What you're seeing in this photo is what happens when the metallic braid in a hose gets so hot that it burns up the outer plastic sheath, which incidentally causes brake fluid to boil up out of the master cylinder onto your garage floor! So instead of simply replacing my starter, I am now looking at replacing a brake hose and flushing the brake fluid before I can drive anywhere.

The moral of this cautionary tale is don't be like me: take lots of pictures before you change out critical components.

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

Huh. I did my starter years ago on my old truck and it went smooth as heck. Sorry yours wasn't as easy!

 

[Landpimp]

Mostly good news, sorry about the hose.

So toyota can still do a vin search if needed.

Did the new key help?

I just replaced some shoe laces(quick laces)....I took a pic before to remember which way they went.... I have ADHD.....so often my attention span is about like a squirrel on meth

 

[scott fasken]

try getting a new key cut from the vin code

My Camray had a"cut" copy key and it would stick. Yes got gte a real VIN key made.

 

[lechnito]

Yeah, the new keys fit great and they turn the ignition much better than the old key. Because the key turns so well, there's now an issue where the vehicle won't start when I quickly go from Lock to Start positions. I have to let it get into Accessory mode first or else the starter runs but nothing happens.

The PO of my vehicle installed a kill switch that is probably related to this issue.