Tig or Mig?

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Ended up getting a Clarke 180 (220) welder... with 10/2 year warranty..


I never knew how much nicer a 220 was to weld with.....Me like
 
i love tigging with a GOOD machine...having said that i just picked up a millermatic 212 (mig) and its also a very nice machine...the tigs are more expensive and the migs can get the job done faster...i will at some point buy a tig but not for a while, i need to make alot of bumpers before my mig pays itself off...
 
Moby said:
I've been debating the same question. I've been gas welding and I'm wondering how hard it is to make the jump from gas to TIG. Any thoughts?
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Gas to tig is a easy transition. In fact, when I was in welding school they saved the hardest welding for last - Oxy-Fuel was the last subject and tig was next to last. In comparison, we did mig the very first day...

Years ago I had a friend who was a metal scultpor and made her living doing it. She only used gas welding. I let my friend try my Tig and she never even missed a beat once she figured out the pedal, etc. Now, she only uses Tig.

I'll echo what some others have said, cheap welders suck and cheap/small tig welders are not so great. I'd rather have a good Mig like a 210/212 than a cheap mig and a cheap tig. Especially if you used a massive one in school. I'd love to have one of the new Miller inverters, I tried one at the Miller road show a few years ago and was blown away by how well it worked.

-Stumbaugh
 
I'm still leaning towards TIG. I actually like the filler control and slower speed that I get with gas but I'd like better heat control. I'm looking at either the Lincoln TIG 225 or the Miller Synchrowave 200. It's rare that I need to do 1/4" but it seems that these machine will do it (slowly and with good prep and probably a water cooled torch) for the few times that I need it.
 
220 is all I have ever welded with.

how much of a difference is there?

just an ignoramus asking............
 
I'd suggest that you get tig over a gas torch setup, unless you want to go old school and do things the hard way. I use my acetylene rig for cutting, heating and bending but rarely for welding. I will say that my friend has a Henrob setup and that is pretty darn cool but that I'd rather use TIG for the same task.

I bought the Lincoln 225 about a year ago and liked it. I sold it when I moved to the Left coast. I generally prefer Miller but that particular Lincoln is a great machine.

Even if you do have to do thicker metal, you can just take your time with the air cooled torch. What's the hurry? It's a hobby right? Water cool is great but not needed for the hobbyist most of the time.

-Stumbaugh
 
reffug said:
220 is all I have ever welded with.

how much of a difference is there?

just an ignoramus asking............
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220 gives you enough juice to weld thicker metal but I'd say that the real difference is that most 220 welders (especially the Millermatic 210/212 or bigger) have huge power supplies which gives them a nice steady arc.

Not to say that you cant get good welds from a 110 machine on thinner metals but they just don't have the same arc qualities. Even on larger machines, the arc characteristics vary somewhat. A lot of this is personal preference, but a good deal of it is pure performance. I think you start to get a awesome machine at about the Millermatic 210 and above (years ago it was the MM 185).

-Stumbaugh

-Stumbaugh
 
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Had a hobart 140 110v.Picked up a miller 212. 220v is the only way to go.
 
colangut said:
220 gives you enough juice to weld thicker metal but I'd say that the real difference is that most 220 welders (especially the Millermatic 210/212 or bigger) have huge power supplies which gives them a nice steady arc.

Not to say that you cant get good welds from a 110 machine on thinner metals but they just don't have the same arc qualities. Even on larger machines, the arc characteristics vary somewhat. A lot of this is personal preference, but a good deal of it is pure performance. I think you start to get a awesome machine at about the Millermatic 210 and above (years ago it was the MM 185).

-Stumbaugh

-Stumbaugh
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I have owned and used several welders including MM130, MM210, and MM200. I currently have a Millermatic 130 and Millermatic 200 for my mig welding duties. I have a Hobart Beta-Mig 200 on the way which I'll be able to test and play with in a couple of weeks.

I would venture to say the arc quality (some arc is just nicer than other) which would include: arc stability, good weld wet out, softness of the arc, arc starts, etc., is affected more by the choke design and the level of inductance of the welder as opposed to the input power level. Changing mig wires from one brand to another can affect the quality of the arc.

For pure short circuit on 1/8" or thinner with .023 wire, my little millematic 130 works very well.
No spatter and very smooth and stable arc. I would not try to weld anything thicker than 1/8" with any 110v welder. You can only squeeze so much amperage out of 110 volts.

Anything thicker than 18 gauge, I can use the Millermatic 200.
Millermatic 200 is my favorite and I would not trade it for any mig other welder. I like it more than the Millermatic 210 that I had.

I've never welded with a 3 phase welder, but I've heard they weld very well compared to single phase welder.

The examples you cite, MM185 and MM210/212 are all very good welders when it comes to a quality and stable arc. I would have no problem recommending a Millermatic 210/212.

If you have a choice of buying one welder only, then I'd have to recommend you get a 230v welder.
 
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Charles,

That is a great post, very good info and I could not agree more.

The Millermatic 200 is an awesome machine, I prefer some of the older units myself.

So far, I've owned a few Miller 130's and 135's, a 185, two 210's and a 250.

I bought my 250 back in 95 and consider it the best welder that I've ever owned. I like the arc start and infinite heat settings as well as the high and low range wire speed. I should never have sold that machine! The 210 is the next best I've owned but I use to have the use of a old Millermatic Vintage machine that had an awesome arc characteristics that were very different from the 250 also sold at the same time.

I like to use a 130 for sheet metal and a 250/210 for all else but I like the 250 for thin sheet as well.

We had a Hobart 300 AMP MIG in class (Made before the merger with Miller) and it was an awesome unit as well. It's been 12 years since I used it but I'd like to try another one day to play it again as it was very different than my 250.

Have you tried one of the push pull units that Miller makes? I had a chance to play with one at the Miller road show and it was very impressive as well.

-Stumbaugh
 
colangut said:
I'd suggest that you get tig over a gas torch setup, unless you want to go old school and do things the hard way. I use my acetylene rig for cutting, heating and bending but rarely for welding. I will say that my friend has a Henrob setup and that is pretty darn cool but that I'd rather use TIG for the same task.

I bought the Lincoln 225 about a year ago and liked it. I sold it when I moved to the Left coast. I generally prefer Miller but that particular Lincoln is a great machine.

Even if you do have to do thicker metal, you can just take your time with the air cooled torch. What's the hurry? It's a hobby right? Water cool is great but not needed for the hobbyist most of the time.

-Stumbaugh
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I already have a gas setup that I use for welding and cutting, the TIG would be to replace the gas (for welding, I'll still keep the bottles for cutting and heat forming). And yeah, speed is not really important to me :) Thanks for all the feedback, much appreciated!
 
colangut said:
Charles,

That is a great post, very good info and I could not agree more.

The Millermatic 200 is an awesome machine, I prefer some of the older units myself.

So far, I've owned a few Miller 130's and 135's, a 185, two 210's and a 250.

I bought my 250 back in 95 and consider it the best welder that I've ever owned. I like the arc start and infinite heat settings as well as the high and low range wire speed. I should never have sold that machine! The 210 is the next best I've owned but I use to have the use of a old Millermatic Vintage machine that had an awesome arc characteristics that were very different from the 250 also sold at the same time.

I like to use a 130 for sheet metal and a 250/210 for all else but I like the 250 for thin sheet as well.

We had a Hobart 300 AMP MIG in class (Made before the merger with Miller) and it was an awesome unit as well. It's been 12 years since I used it but I'd like to try another one day to play it again as it was very different than my 250.

Have you tried one of the push pull units that Miller makes? I had a chance to play with one at the Miller road show and it was very impressive as well.

-Stumbaugh
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Stumbaugh,

Millermatic Vintage is supposed to be the same as the Millermatic 200 as far as the internals are concerned.
I have not had a chance to use a push/pull gun. I'm sure it feeds very well and you can can a very long mig gun.

Charles
 
colangut said:
Charles,

That's good to know, I'll have to watch for a used one to replace the 250 I sold.

thanks

John
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John,

Here is a brief history of the Millermatic Vintage from what I can remember.

Millermatic 200 was the staple of welders for many years and Miller quit making them in the early 1990's to replace it with the Millermatic 250.

Many people traded in or sold their MM200 to buy the new and improved MM250. Many thought it had more amperage/power since it had the 250 designation instead of 200. However, that is not the case. Millermatic 200, 250, 250x, 251, and 252 are all rated at 200 amps at 60% duty cycle. If you talk to Miller tech support, they'll tell you the duty cycle rating on the MM200 is very conservative since engineers were allow to "overbuild" the welders at that time. The same cannot be said for the newer Millermatic welders due to to cost constraints of bean counters.

Many people were very disappointed with the arc performance of the MM250 compared to the MM200. Many complained of the "harsh" arc and difficult arc starts of the MM250. So many people complained to Miller saying they wanted a welder like the MM200 which they USED to own.

Miller released the MM250x which was a little better than the MM250, but still did not make people happy.

Miller started manufacturing the Millermatic Vintage to make previous owners of Millermatic 200 happy, but did not sell as well as they thought. Millermatic Vintage had a very short life was replaced with the Millermatic 251 which turned out to be a good welder.

Millermatic Vintage is supposed to have the same transformers as the Millermatic 200. The setting are the same: high/low setting with 7 taps for a total of 14 taps, It will also accept the SKP-35 (spot, pulse panel) which are almost impossible to find since Miller quit making them in 1996.

Many people regard the Millermatic 200 as one the best mig welder that Miller has ever manufactured and praise it for the stable and soft arc.

I would encourage anyone to try a MM200 if you get a chance. You may end up selling you welder to look for a used Millermatic 200.

Sorry for the long winded post.. I like my MM200 very much.

Charles
 
I have a Hobart Handler 150 w/gas and a Lincoln Precision Tig 185. The Tig machine will also allow me to stick weld. The learning curve for Tig is very steep. If you're good at oxy/acetelene welding, you'll probably be ok at Tig welding. Many of the same hand/eye skills are required for both. I find that I use my MIG machine A WHOLE lot more than the TIG machine. FYI.
 
any comments from experienced memebers on the Hobart Handler 187?.have been looking at one and it is in my budget range.ouch!..... need it for sheet metal rust patching!

Lou
 
I have not tried it myself, but I've heard some good stuff about it.

Go to www.hobartwelders.com and click on the link for weld talk. There is some great info there, it's like mud for weldors talking about welders.

-Stumbaugh
 
someone asked about the transition from gas to tig,,,, very easy trans,,, really with tig the most important thing to learn is setting up the machine for what your welding,,, heat range, pulsed or not, AC or DC-/+ and most important, the right tungsten for the material. once its all setup the only real difference from gas to tig is the foot pedal, and if your set up right all you do is hold it down.
 
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