ARCHIVE Testing the Waters: 60-Series Frames

[Zack1978]

IME 60 bodies rust or are trail demolished faster than the frames. There are very few instance where a 60 has such a pristine body that it is worth putting a frame under it. In most cases if the frame is toast, so is the body on top of it.

Just sayin...

Come on Jim....the body of my 60 is totally worth a new frame!

Zack

 

[ouroutdoorfamily]

I'd love to help on the design end, I second to boxed idea. Try designing your frames with rec. tubing, many companies out there can create compound bends with square, rect or round tubing, then I would recommend sleeving any frame holes with DOM tubing as well as sleeving any areas containing tapped holes, or have those holes drilled out, filled with solid round bar that has been drilled and tapped

 

[FJ40Jim]

While a new stock body would be cost prohibitive, a new boxy body to go on 60 frame might be do-able. Maybe Aqualu could break up something like a FZJ76 to fit 60 frame mounts and reuse 60 taillights and glass? Prolly not, but kinda cool to think about...

 

[Callahan Offroad]

While a new stock body would be cost prohibitive, a new boxy body to go on 60 frame might be do-able. Maybe Aqualu could break up something like a FZJ76 to fit 60 frame mounts and reuse 60 taillights and glass? Prolly not, but kinda cool to think about...

Not a bad idea. Really, if you break it down to what it is a L/C is really a drive-train bolted to a chassis with an optional metal skin wrapped around it. Aside from the steering column (and even that is arguable) you could theoretically remove the body all-together and drive that chassis around. Hell, get some tube and weld a few brackets to the chassis to make your pedal arrangements, place for the seat, and reinforcement for the steering column and you actually could drive it around. Maybe there is a way to build a roll-cage then place the skin on it in the correct places. Of course at this point we've just built a buggy haven't we?

It'd be fun to do something like the Bowler Wildcat, which is one of my major inspirations for my project car I'm designing. Build a new unibody design that can incorporate all the latest technology but still retain the shape of the cruiser. The Wildcat is technically (and i use that loosely) a LR Defender, even though it is not at all. Anyways, I'm getting lost in the play-ground of my mind. If I keep up with this any-longer I'll start building brand-new unibody 60's running 700hp twin turbo buick motors, fuel injection, 8 speed trannys, built in roll-cages, and proper suspension set-ups. anyone want to be an investor? hahaha!

 

[Slow Left]

For the frame, it seems like there are two main considerations...
Material
Design

...and one constraint: price (maybe time, too)

And they influence each other somehow at one time or another.

So for design, all the issues/lessons learned on the original Toyota FJ60 product are coming out. MUD is demanding a simple solution that makes improvements (boxing in rear channels in place of c-channels, for example) and increases versatility (for easy incorporation of better or newer suspensions/axels).

And for material, it is going to have to be workable (cut welded etc), durable and cost effective. And treated properly for long life, but without compromising it's workability.

And all together, it should be able to receive the FJ60 body (so same body mount pattern?, and not affect things like being able to drop the tank or reach this bolt or that bolt).

This is cool. It's a second shot at redesigning knowing what we do know now.

 

[SNLC]

Don't use rivets on the frame. Put good drains at the rear leaf hanger. 60 frames are well known to rot here.

my 2 cents

 

[Heckraiser]

I think it would be hard to make a profit on a project like this. As others have pointed out, if you 60 is in good enough shape to warrant a $3000 frame, odds are your frame is already in pretty good shape. A 60 frame with 80 suspension pick up points would be cool, but then you'd lose half the market who are trying to keep it traditional. That, and most people willing to take on this project are confident enough in their own skills to either adapt the 60 frame or swap the 80 frame. Working up two frames is probably a major jump in production and development cost.

I would pay big bucks for a 60 body shell made out of something better than a tin can, but good luck getting that project off the ground!

 

[Slow Left]

Yeah, from a business perspective, correctly reading the market on a project like this is going to be tricky. Because each of us see the issue (buy versus not buy) from our own, unique perspective (in other words, state of our vehicle). But the decisions we made up until this point on building/maintaining our own 60s didn't have the option of a new frame or new body. So that decision point for me might not come until 3 years from now. For others, maybe they made it last year and won't be confronted with it again for 15 years. But the thing is that there are constantly new people buying into the FJ60 build/restoration market, as seen by the new posts from new folks either looking for a rust-free vehicle or advice about purchasing a particular vehicle or having already purchased one to find out that they have difficult problems to solve... So I can see a product like this giving them the option. It might be half the price to try to restore the frame you've got, but does that include all the time spent doing it and the opportunity cost of spending time doing it (the opportunity cost being the lost progress on another activity that you could have accomplished in it's place).

I'll tell you, another good point about Jim C.'s idea with the FZJ76 is that all the parts (knobs, buttons, door-do-dad) that go in it might be increasingly available (instead of decreasingly available). If they could tweek the design to fit the FJ60 glass, it might be very close to the original FJ60 look...

And it appears to have a shorter hood...maybe solves that other problem about line-of-sight while 4wheeling?