Take a ride. (71 FJ40)

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I am wanting to like that 2.8 but I have also read what Jon is referring to above. If indeed it turns out to be a good motor for the long haul I think it is about a perfect size for the 40. I'd let things shake out for a while and see how the trucks that are now being swapped with the 2.8L Cummins fare a year or so down the road.

I read in the 2.8 swap thread in the 60 section that complete parts list on the swap is over $20K, obviously including the motor. That puts it right about the same money, just a little less than a crate LS3 Connect and Cruise, all in. I know that TOR has a kit available for the 60 series and I believe is working on the same for a 40 series. So at least most of the fabrication of mounts etc is available or soon will be.

Del, are you thinking auto or manual trans?
 
It be cool to go manual but at this point in time I am in the early stages of planning so I really don't know for sure, based on availability of what is out there either one would be fine to me. Obviously I am a super fan of the LS motors. bang for the buck I fell that is the way to go. The 2.8 platform is new. That is why I am going to wait as long as possible to finally pull the trigger. a lot more info and hopefully aftermarket support will be out there in a year and a half from now.

I welcome any and all comments. So by all means post it up. I am a big fan of shared knowledge especially for me since I unfortunately don't always have the time to research as much as I would like.

I finally made room in the garage last night to be able to pull the 40 in. I am going to try to get it off the trailer and put it in the garage by myself tonight. wish me luck.
 
I rebuilt my 2FE and Jerry had already done a lot of the work (I didn't have to buy a lot of parts that are since even harder to get). It's getting really expensive to rebuild the F series engines, from what I understand. If I was building a truck for my son, I would go 5.3L vortec swap all day every day! I know the purists hate it, but if you want something that can get out of its own way, and won't sit for days waiting on parts if something goes wrong, it really is a no-brainer to me. And this is a guy that spent way too much money trying to use all Toyota on Dozer (minus the EFI controller). Diesel is cool and all, I love my DMax, but practicality wins every time in my book... so the 2.8 just wouldn't make the cut for me due to budget.
 
mtweller said:
I rebuilt my 2FE and Jerry had already done a lot of the work (I didn't have to buy a lot of parts that are since even harder to get). It's getting really expensive to rebuild the F series engines, from what I understand. If I was building a truck for my son, I would go 5.3L vortec swap all day every day! I know the purists hate it, but if you want something that can get out of its own way, and won't sit for days waiting on parts if something goes wrong, it really is a no-brainer to me. And this is a guy that spent way too much money trying to use all Toyota on Dozer (minus the EFI controller). Diesel is cool and all, I love my DMax, but practicality wins every time in my book... so the 2.8 just wouldn't make the cut for me due to budget.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more. The next truck I build (not just a refresh) will 110% have a 5.3 in it!!
 
Ramon and Jon are right on the mark in that the best bag for the buck swap is a 5.3L vortec. I am of the mind that a 4 cyl or V6 would be a better swap for the 40 series.

Anyone know anything about this motor?
LTG 2.0L Turbocharged

19328837_A.jpg


PRODUCT DETAILS
TURBOCHARGED EXCITEMENT IN A SMALL PACKAGE
Used in many performance sedans throughout General Motors’ global portfolio, the LTG 2.0L Turbocharged four-cylinder is one of the most power-dense engines in the industry. And thanks to advanced technologies, such as direct injection, it is a surprisingly efficient performer. It’s a great choice for custom tuner cars or to make a statement in your hot rod, with its compact – and lightweight – capabilities.

The LTG is rated at 272 horsepower at 5,500 rpm and 295 lb.-ft. of torque at 3,000 rpm. Its torque curve is broad and robust, delivering 90 percent (260 lb.-ft.) of its peak torque from 1,700 rpm to 5,500 rpm – for a great feeling of immediate power at all speeds. Peak torque is sustained from 3,000 to 4,600 rpm.

The turbocharger generates up to 20 pounds of boost and its twin-scroll design helps optimize the usable power from the engine, virtually eliminating turbo lag and helping deliver a broad power band. Electronically controlled supporting components, including the wastegate and bypass, help optimize performance and efficiency.

Additional engine features include:
• Aluminum engine block with cast-in-place iron liners
• Forged steel crankshaft
• Pistons with jet-spray cooling
• Modular balance shaft system in the oil pan
• Rotocast aluminum cylinder head with sodium-filled exhaust valves
• Dual overhead camshafts with continuously variable valve timing
• Direct injection with cam-driven high-pressure fuel pump
• Two-stage variable-displacement oil pump
• Assembly shipped with flywheel and clutch assembly (installed) – P/N 19328837
• Engine kit does not include electroincs
• Not intended for marine applications

NOTE: Use with Chevrolet Performance engine controller kit P/N 19328839, for manual transmission applications only. Fabrication is required to incorporate a charge cooler for the air-to-air intercooling system. A high-pressure fuel pump suitable for direct injection is also required.
 
Congratulations and I am happy it went to a good home. Somewhere I might have a top shifter plate and shifter if you go that route. That picture of your boy reminds me of someone else the day we got his first Cruiser home @WhiteTiger911

173077_1700734312198_3896259_o.webp
 
Screw the haters, R2.8 all the way!
 
I don't see haters, I see people that would rather gather more information on a new motor in the US with tons of hype that is consistently given bad reviews where it is already in use.
 
NCFJ said:
I don't see haters, I see people that would rather gather more information on a new motor in the US with tons of hype that is consistently given bad reviews where it is already in use.
Click to expand...

I will have to look into this. I haven’t seen any bad reviews. A lot of the 2.8s currently out there in use we’re given Tim certain companies for testing. I’m a bit cynical but I doubt any of those companies are going to be bias and not write any bad reviews considering that the publicity is bringing in potential new business
 
For the quoted money on the 2.8L Cummins or even the LS swap, I'd just as soon find a modern Toyota engine if you have to swap. The 2UZ would be perfect in there and has been done many times already. Parts availability is not an issue. Heck, if I roll my GX, I'll save the engine for the 40...

Why not just drive the ol' F til it quits? Quite honestly, with stock-size tires and an engine that's been serviced, mine moves pretty darn good. If your son is going to drive it, would you rather he start out with ~100hp or ~300?
 
little_joe said:
For the quoted money on the 2.8L Cummins or even the LS swap, I'd just as soon find a modern Toyota engine if you have to swap. The 2UZ would be perfect in there and has been done many times already. Parts availability is not an issue. Heck, if I roll my GX, I'll save the engine for the 40...

Why not just drive the ol' F til it quits? Quite honestly, with stock-size tires and an engine that's been serviced, mine moves pretty darn good. If your son is going to drive it, would you rather he start out with ~100hp or ~300?
Click to expand...

To Joes point...the 2f in my truck does fine with 37s and stock gears in the diff. It’s no corvette but neither is the rest of the truck!!
 
NCFJ said:
I don't see haters, I see people that would rather gather more information on a new motor in the US with tons of hype that is consistently given bad reviews where it is already in use.
Click to expand...

Being informed is a good thing. Where are these bad reviews you're referring to? I have searched and haven't found any.
 
GLTHFJ60 said:
Being informed is a good thing. Where are these bad reviews you're referring to? I have searched and haven't found any.
Click to expand...

To Stan's (and my) defense...it's not like the internet is littered with bad reviews and that the 2.8 will breakdown before leaving the garage. My point was more so around all the hype and no significant focus on how these engines have performed in the past. While the r2.8 is very new to the US, it's platform has been around since 2009 via the ISF2.8 and the Atlas 2.8. Don't quote me on this as I am no where near an expert...but all three are very similar and based off the same block which is manufactured in China as part of a Cummins JV with Foton. I think the r2.8 is assembled in Indiana. The ISF2.8 has been used in COE commercial type trucks in China and the Atlas 2.8 is in Colorados mainly overseas in Europe.

Here are a couple links...be forewarned, the 2nd link might make you angry :poof::worms:

Cummins R2.8/ISF2.8 Engine specs, problems, reliability, oil, Crate engine
http://dieseltoys.com/4bt-engine-conversions

I won't continue to litter Del's thread with engine discussions...sorry Del :notworthy:
 
This is being informed, not about making anyone angry.

Lots of Cummins parts are manufactured in China these days, including many new parts for old engines. In our collective experience(s) on 4BTSwaps, these China-derived parts (castings, wear parts, turbo assemblies, other things) are all top quality. Let's read more about premature engine failures with more than an opinion to back it up, especially not from a shop that's biased towards expensive Toyota factory diesels. Maybe a D4D can be had cheaper than a R2.8, but a 12H-T, 1HZ-T nor 1HD-T are certainly not cheaper.

Interesting read on the ISF 2.8/3.8 family starting 9 years ago:
Isf 3.8/2.8l

Early engines seemed to have reliability probelms when very cold (-30c, -22f):
Капитальный ремонт двигателя Cummins (Камминс) ISF 2.8 Газель Бизнес и Некст: снятие, гильзовка, замена коленвала, поршневой группы и всех прокладок, настройка и установка двигателя. Статьи компании ООО "Астра Моторс"
Гильзовка блока цилиндров двигателя Cummins/Камминз ISF 2.8, установленного на Газели Бизнес. Фотогалерея компании «ООО "Астра Моторс" - запчасти и ремонт двигателей Cummins »

Also says that the ISF2.8 is chain drive, not gear like the ISF3.8, or B series engines. Can't find if the R2.8 has a timing chain or timing gear, but that'll confirm it's the same block as the early afflicted blocks at least.

I'm not finding anything recent about the ISF2.8 engines. Maybe they has early failures and worked them all out? Cummins has a history of improving designs as they go along, offering updated gaskets and bearings for engines as old as mine, made in the 80s, so I have no doubt the same methodology is applied to this engine.



Warranty looks as good or better than industry standard for consumer-installed. GM has a 30 day parts-only warranty for some engines when installed by someone other than a dealer, and no warranty at all for one of their "connect and cruise" powertrain packages:

https://www.chevrolet.com/content/d...fs/chevrolet-performance-gm-warranty-card.pdf



Good topic, was not aware of the reliability concerns with early engines. I hope they've sorted that all out, because the reviews and driver accounts of people who have the new R2.8 are all excellent.
 
GLTHFJ60 said:
Warranty looks as good or better than industry standard for consumer-installed. GM has a 30 day parts-only warranty for some engines when installed by someone other than a dealer, and no warranty at all for one of their "connect and cruise" powertrain packages:

https://www.chevrolet.com/content/d...fs/chevrolet-performance-gm-warranty-card.pdf
Click to expand...

I read this as providing a 24 month / 50k mile warranty as long as the GM Performance Engine is installed in a street legal vehicle regardless of if it is dealer installed or sold 'over the counter'.

Parts Warranty Information: Chevrolet, Buick, GMC, and Cadillac | Genuine GM Parts
 
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I see that. Doesn't seem to match the link I cited from chevy performance, which "other" covers engines sold "over the counter". Would need to look into it with GM/Chevy to verify I guess :cautious:

EDIT for more info:

It's not entirely what "repair" means when talking about a crate engine (repairing a vehicle by replacing the engine I guess?), but this matches what I posted above:
Warranty

Example of GM denied warranty on two week old engine because customer ran into (possibly caused) a problem while installing:
New ls3 crate engine warranty/ block cracked... Feedback
 
Last edited:
GLTHFJ60 said:
I see that. Doesn't seem to match the link I cited from chevy performance, which "other" covers engines sold "over the counter". Would need to look into it with GM/Chevy to verify I guess :cautious:
Click to expand...

But any monkey can work on GM and parts are available everywhere - aren't those some of the big selling points? Why would you need a warranty? :rolleyes::flipoff2:
 
Yay this turned into an engine swap thread.
To Ramom's, Stan's and Jon's point there is nothing better bang for your buck on a LC than a LSX swap. You can get a 5.3 out of a junkyard for practically nothing and have it putting out over 400HP using common used parts from other LS engines for under $1200 including the price of the engine initially. Buying a brand new engine would change this but i'd don't see the point in that unless you have money to burn and basically want a brand new truck. You could easily find a running long block 5.3 for under $500 with harness and everything from a junk yard. Stand alone ECU from painless.... maybe another $400 (not sure), make your own mounts and get an adapter for the trans or run a GM trans. Fairly cheap swap for an engine that will last a long time and makes great power even in stock form. Sure i'm oversimplifying that as there will be other small expenses here and there but there is really no other engine swap that comes even close in terms of price and bang for your buck.

In terms of reliability when compared to a 2UZ i would imagine the 2uz would eventually win out but it would be so many hundred of thousands of miles down the road on engines that are taken care of I think it doesn't really matter. I've seen LS engines with well over 500k on original engine and i've seen tundras and cruisers with the same thing. If they are taken care of there is really not a huge difference in reliability. Plus no timing belt to do every 90k on a LS. My old work truck was a 01 chevy with a 5.3 in it had well over 400k on it and drove like it was brand new because it was well taken care of. The trans did blow eventually but that was the original one and it had towed for quite a long time in its life also.
Would I trade the 2UZ in my cruiser for a LS... in a second.
Would I trand the 3uz in my LS430 for a LS.... maybe. Only maybe because the 3uz and 1uz in the lexus LS400/430 are so silky smooth from the factory you don't know they are on... that quarter on the intake manifold commercial from years ago is dead on accurate. But at the same time i'l like more than the 300HP and I could get that and a whole lot more easily from a LS.

Now i'm a diesel fan for trucks, not so much for speed in cars, but in trucks I like the torque curve, the noise and the feel of the engine. Apples vs apples i'd take the 2.8 Dmax over the cummins but cummins beat GM to the punch and now tons of swap kits are being made for that engine. It is just a more proven engine IMHO as it has been used in GM products around the world for quite some time now. I haven't seen many bad reviews on the cummins, only a few but nothing major. I do think for a 40 that size diesel engine is perfect. But seeing as though you can't find any used ones lying around the price of the engine new is something to think about. How much power can it make?? who knows. All the guys who got the engine for the repower program cannot mod them under the cummins agreement. Tor showed me the box on the 62 they installed that sends data back to cummins so they know if anything is different than factory. He can't wait when they finally take the leash off of that part.

@SFROMAN i'll see if I can get some seat time in the 40 they just put the C 2.8 in at the next meeting for some first hand experience.
 
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