Suspension sway questions

[kevin g]

Suspension swap questions (sorry)

OK, I realize this is the type of question that has been asked thousands of times already. I have read the posts in the FAQ and did a search, but I am asking again anyway.

I am starting to look at 2-3” spring lifts for my FJ62. I thought the decision would be easy – Old Man Emu – until I saw the price, holy wow. Now I am looking at others. Specifically HFS and Smoky Mountain and somewhat BDS and Pinnacle. I am assuming that all of the above are decent but probably not as good as OME, is this a correct assumption? I am finding it difficult to find any experience stories about the Smoky Mountain lift, which I am most considering along with HFS. For those of you with experience on any of the above:
1. How long have you had it installed?
2. How has it held up, any appreciable sagging over time?
3. How is the ride unloaded? Loaded with around 500-700 lbs?
4. How is it pulling a light trailer?
5. How well do they perform on the trail?
6. If you had to do it again, would you spend another $600-700 dollars on OME?

Also, is it possible to reuse the stock shackles? Or is this a bad idea? Are anti-inversion shackles necessary?

I will probably not be changing my tire size from 31x10.5 ATs to 33x10.5 MTs until the 31s I have on now are ready for retirement or the 62 isn’t serving daily driver duties anymore. I realize that a lift without a tire change doesn’t get full use of the lift, but is going to look stupid too? Should I delay gratification until I am ready to change tires too? This would give more time to save up for the OME, but if OME is not worth the extra $$$, I don’t want to spend the extra $$$.

Thanks,
Kevin

 

[Rollin'in'Zona]

62 lift

I built 60/62's for a 4x tour company in Utah, and a company in AZ with 11 FJ40's. I built a 60 and 62 for myself. Sold the 60 last year after 7 years and still have the 62, also 7 years.

First the simple stuff: Yes, you'll need longer shackles in order to maxamize the longer springs abilities. You don't need anti-inversion shackles, but if you've ever had to deal with an inverted shackle on the trail you'll probably just spend the extra for them. However, if your shackle are long enough, it's unlikely they will invert. Believe it or not, we wore out the OME anti inversion shackles on a few trucks! This was in the early days of those shackles here and OME seems to have dealt with it in redesign. Personally, my favorite shackles are from my least favorite company, Man-A-Fart! I hate giving them my money, buth the $135 per pair extended, greasable shackles are the ticket They are well made, made specifically to fit 60 series (do NOT use 40s series shackles!), and are looong.
My second favorite are sold by TPI for about $80/ pair. For us, with 2.5 to 3 " lift springs, a total shackle length of 5" to 6 " eye to eye worked best in the rear, a bit shorter up front. Again, this is for our application.

We tried many, many spring / shock combinations, and this is what we / I found:

For logevity the OME can't be beat. But theyre s-t-i-f-f! We used Man-A-Farts top 'o the line springs as well as Specters and another from TPI. While they all had a nice feel to them at first, every one of them was whipped out or broen in a matter of a few years. The Man-A-Farts actually bent behind the front eye in the first season of use. The @ssholes then tried to not replace it. Eventually one of the phone reps accidently and unconsiously admitted that "every time this happens the person wants new springs"... Every time this happens? I had 'em then, and yes they admitted there was a problem and replaced the set w/ OME for the difference in cost.

Anyway, back to the topic:
Keep in mind that we would carry loads of 800 to 1500 puonds on 4x4 trails! Each truck was subjected to this from 12 to 30 days per month, 6 to 10 months per year. This is where them OME springs outshine everyone else I've tried, which does NOT include any of the companies you listed.

The OME sping/shock combo was so stiff however that we were not happy the ride unless the trucks were under full, I mean full load.

My FJ60 had the most comfortable suspension of them all: Lightest weight OME springs with dual Deutch Tech MV1200 shocks. Articulation was amazing! Soaked up the rough stuff like you can't believe! With heavy loads, however, bodyroll on the highway was pronounced.

The current setup on my 62 is the heaviest OME springs in the rear, mid weights up front. I have two sets of shocks, neither of which is perfect: If I'm loading the pig for a long trip I'll install the OME Nitrochargers (circa 1997). With a full truck this is a great set up! I've been wheeling on some of the hardest trails in CO and UT with a full load, and am always amazed! Again, this is OME's thing!
For around town daily driving I've got some ProComp deals which do mellow the ride, but I don't really like the feel.

Unforunately I'm no longer in the biz, and just do not have the budget to experiment with ideal shocks for this ride.

This is only one persons experience, with a lot of trucks. Good luck.

 

[Overlord]

One word or acronym, SOA!

Other than that, OME supposedly rides the nicest, but I have no experience with OME. I run the 2.5" BDS lift and it is stiff unless my 60 loaded to the hilt. I'm thinking of removing a leaf or 2 in the rear to soften the ride. The price was the determining factor for me at $1000 shipped to Alaska. OME was $1700-1800 before shipping. The BDS lift includes springs, front anti-sway extension (FJ60 don't have rear anti-sway in the US), shocks, spring and shock bushings, u-bolts, and related hardware. OME kits include longer shackles and the BDS didn't.

 

[Overlord]

Personally, my favorite shackles are from my least favorite company, Man-A-Fart! I hate giving them my money, buth the $135 per pair extended, greasable shackles are the ticket They are well made, made specifically to fit 60 series (do NOT use 40s series shackles!), and are looong.
My second favorite are sold by TPI for about $80/ pair. For us, with 2.5 to 3 " lift springs, a total shackle length of 5" to 6 " eye to eye worked best in the rear, a bit shorter up front. Again, this is for our application.

Are these the MAF shackles you're talking about?

http://www.man-a-fre.com/parts_accessories/4+plusdogbonegreasableshackles.htm

This what I found on the TPI shackles:

http://www.tpi4x4.com/lcinp5_1.html

Any idea how long they are?

 

[Rollin'in'Zona]

Are these the MAF shackles you're talking about?

http://www.man-a-fre.com/parts_accessories/4+plusdogbonegreasableshackles.htm

This what I found on the TPI shackles:

http://www.tpi4x4.com/lcinp5_1.html

Any idea how long they are?

Nope, these here: http://www.man-a-fre.com/parts_accessories/4+plusGSKsuperdutyHDgreasableshackle.htm

They'v also got them w/o grase fittings for about $80:http://www.man-a-fre.com/parts_accessories/4+plusRSKhdantiinversionshackle.htm

As for TPI, definite nope! They do not have the one's we used on thier website. They were llong, thick walled, square, zinc plated shackles w/ full gusset and fat grease pins for around $80. Maybe they don't have them anymore??? But if you look in their paper catalogue you'd find them.

I've known 60/62 owners who've used shackles made for FJ40, but these are narrower sided to side, so you have to either shave the bushing and run with like 3/16th bushing on either side or deal with such an intense binding force that their articulation is severly restricted. This was the case with my FJ62 when I bought it from my buddy in 97. Took me days to figure it out. Replacing with the proper fit made such an immense difference in ride quality.

My 62 has came w/ rear sway bar.

 

[atomicpunk]

I Just installed the BDS 2.5" lift and the and the manafre extended anti inversion shackles. So far, I am Happy with the ride. I am running 33x12.5 tires and there is plenty of clearance with 4" backspacing rockcrawler rims. You will need to purchase extended brake lines and new spring pins too. The ride (to me) sems just as good if not better than the stock setup. I have not loaded the vehicle up yet.

 

[Overlord]

I Just installed the BDS 2.5" lift and the and the manafre extended anti inversion shackles. So far, I am Happy with the ride. I am running 33x12.5 tires and there is plenty of clearance with 4" backspacing rockcrawler rims. You will need to purchase extended brake lines and new spring pins too. The ride (to me) sems just as good if not better than the stock setup. I have not loaded the vehicle up yet.

How long are the MAF shackles that you went with? How much lift did they give you over the BDS lift? My 33X12.5 rubs a little at full stuff and so I need a little more lift.

 

[dd113]

I have intalled quite a few TPI Smokey mountain kits. For the money they are a great deal. You get the full kit. All you need to ad is extended brake lines and extend you RR sway bar link. Comes with OME shocks, greasable shackles and pins, OME bushings, u bolts etc... If you need more RR support you can add the OME HD leaf in both ft and back and bascially get a full OME HD kit for a bunch less.

I sell the TPI kits and have yet to have an issue with them except for one. People buy the standard kit and load the hell out of it, roof rack, ARB bar, winch, lots of crap and wheel the piss out of it then the springs start to sag after a while. Any supension will do this if it is not up to the job including OME MD. A nice set up is TPI with the OME HD leaf in the back with OME shocks.

 

[Exiled]

I ran the OME's (heavies front and rear) for four years, purchased them in the good old days when the Aussie dollar was weak versus the US$ and paid a lot less than that. Rode well, wheeled fine, didn't provide enough lift for what I wanted to do (run 35"+). Let me rephrase that. You *could* run 35" with OME's, but I was looking for better performance and didn't want to get into longer shackles, SR, etc..

Sprung the Cruiser over four years ago and never looked back, one of the top three mods on the old beast. Daily-drove it until very recently, 40K since the SOA, the quality of the ride is unbeatable.

FWIW, if you have to pay $1,700 for an OME kit, that puts you well in the realm of a SOA conversion using quality components. Check out the POR for more info and some recent examples.

 

[atomicpunk]

How long are the MAF shackles that you went with? How much lift did they give you over the BDS lift? My 33X12.5 rubs a little at full stuff and so I need a little more lift.

I used the same shackles that Rolin' posted in that link above part# GSK-1060F.

They are suposed to be 2" in the front and 1" in the rear. The BDS springs are a little raked in the rear, and I think that these shackles make up for that.

 

[esh]

Not a requirement, but another option to add with the suspension is the MAF ubolt reversal kit. It gets things up and out of the way.

 

[Stumper]

One more bit of info, I do have a line on OME stuff, and can get it relativly cheaper then $1700-1800 that is going around. My last set up of OME on my 62 ran me $1200 shipped to my door. Full set, heavy rear, medium front, ubolts, shackles, bushings, pins, shocks, steering stabilizer. PM me if you would like any more info.

 

[kevin g]

PM sent.

 

[kevin g]

I hate ebay.

Update:
Missed out on this, winning bid that beat mine was submitted 13 sec. before auction ended. Oh, well.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...&item=7911429666&rd=1&sspagename=STRK:MEWA:IT

Thanks for the heads up on it 60Wag.

Stumper, expect another PM in the very near future.

 

[gulp3000]

I wonder how many of us were watching that auction! I picked up the used BDS lift that was on there a few weeks ago but haven't put it on yet so I was keeping my eye on that one.

 

[Heffenoche]

Kevin Give JT a call and tell him you got out bidded at the last second and maybe he'll sell you a set up close to that price. Worst that can happen is he'll say no.

That said I have had the Pinnicle lift on my 60 for three years. the only other accessory I have is an ARB bull bar. In my opinion I think the Pinnicle suspension is a heavy loaded suspension because when I have the truck load with 500lbs or more it rides down the road pretty smooth, but when it is empty it can be a bouncy ride. So unless you have 500 extra pounds in your truck at all times it will be a little bouncy. I think OME Mediums are a much better road ride to them.

I've wheeled with this set up @ GSMTR, CMCC, Rausch Creek and other places on easy to moderate trails with no complaints with the suspension at all. Worked very well.

If I had to do it over again would I go with OME. For the price difference I'm not sure. If it were my primary daily drive I probably would, otherwise it's a toss up.

 

[kevin g]

The ones I was bidding on were a used set of OME. They were off a 60 that they were parting out (the shocks were never installed, so I doubt that the 60 was ever driven with the OME springs). Thanks for the advice, but I kind of doubt that JTO has anymore laying around.

 

[kevin g]

Stumper,
In case you missed it, I sent you another PM.

 

[kevin g]

Update and more questions.

Well, today I ordered the HFS kit + HFS 1-1/2" greasable shackles from CCOT. I kind of feel like a Guinea pig with this kit being that there isn’t much feed back on it, but it looks pretty good and the price was pretty good, so I went with it.

CCOT doesn’t sell greasable spring hanger pins and I want these as well. Are all greasable spring hanger pins created equal, or are there particular ones to go with?

I am assuming I will need axle shims. I am thinking 2.5-degree. Does this sound correct? Are they needed in the rear too? Are shims vehicle specific or do I need to find ones for an FJ62?

CCOT didn’t think that I wouldn’t need to extend the brake lines, but I am skeptical. I was thinking that I would install lift first, then see unless there is general consensus that they will be necessary, then I will do at same time. Is there general consensus?

Thanks.

 

[lovetoski]

Hey Kevin,

Congrats on purchasing a lift. You'll love to improvement in ride and looks.

Regarding the shims, OME springs are designed so that caster is appropriate for the amount of lift. I have a MAF (Safari) lift, and needed to add shims (even though MAF said I didn't need them. ) I used 4 degree shims because that's all I could find. My alignment shop said my caster is more than needed though. Just talked to a guy this weekend who got a MAF Safari lift recently, and the kit now comes with 2.5 degree shims. My point is that whether you need shims or not depends on how the springs are made. Suggest you ask CCOT. If they can't tell you, it's easy to check at an alignment shop, and then you'll know exactly what you need. Also, if the caster is off, you'll notice poor steering...

You only need shims in the front.

The shims on my fj60 look like a nearly universal item, so I don't think they are vehicle specific. Recommend you check to be sure though.

Regarding the extended brake lines - in this I can be more definative. Get them! Yes you can use the stock lines for mild wheeling with a 3" lift, but why risk it?

Best Regards,