Suspension confusion

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xd40cal

Joined
Apr 17, 2021
Threads
15
Messages
106
Location
Salt Lake City, UT
I have a '16 LC200 and am about to throw on the ARB Summit bumper (already have winch hidden but am relocating) and rear bumper as well as a 12.5gal LRA. I have called a few shops and am getting varying opinions on what I should do with the suspension. My vehicle is a daily but goes off-road 20% of the time. What suspension setup is an actual upgrade for on road comfort, off road performance, while carrying the additional load?

I've been told to go Icon, OME BP51, and OME Nitrocharger. I don't want to sacrifice on road comfort, I'd like it improved from the OEM setup while performing well off road. My off road driving is usually fire roads, mountain trails, and the likes while I'm out chasing trout. I do not do mudding or rock crawling (unless there is an obstacle on the trail of course but you don't find me running hard in Moab.

I don't plan on adding anything else that increases weight (no roof rack, avoid rear swing out if possible, no roof top tent, no fridge/drawers etc) and I've already removed the 3rd row seats.

What are you running and have experience with?
 
I have a '16 200, and run King 2.5 with OME 2721 rear springs. I have a similar build (front/rear metal bumper, winch, LRA), but with cargo boxes and swingouts. I am very happy with both on and offroad performance. I highly recommend buying from Filthy Motorsports, where Ben will spend time understanding your vehicle, how you use it, to make sure you get a suspension set up for exactly how you use your vehicle, not how I use mine, or the next poster uses theirs.
 
You can stick with the stock shocks for a bit and see if the additional weight puts you off to the softness with the extra weight. If you’re fine with the dampening, you can just work with the coils to get ride height situated. In my experience, the aftermarket shocks all had a much stiffer ride— however the weight of front and rear bumpers should smooth that out. Perhaps an unpopular opinion here: most of those big expensive shock brands started in the desert racing scene and have adapted that application to fit on stock vehicles. So you’re getting expensive shocks that you likely won’t take advantage of the capability, and you get the downsides of that racing pedigree, like spherical bearings that will transmit more vibration than stock rubber bushings. Those spherical bearings are also more likely to corrode and squeak in short order. Fine if you’re racing and ok tearing things apart all the time, less so if you want to never think about your suspension again. Ironman and Dobinsons have rubber bushings on offer, as do the less fancy OME offerings. I’ve run BP-51, Fox DSC on my truck, and ridden King, Dobinsons and Icon in others’. I’m back to stock because I liked the ride quality best :)

if you’re generally happy with the rig, have you considered forgoing the front and rear bumpers? That’s a lot of extra weight to haul if you’re not interested in bang-em-up trails.
 
daneo said:
You can stick with the stock shocks for a bit and see if the additional weight puts you off to the softness with the extra weight. If you’re fine with the dampening, you can just work with the coils to get ride height situated. In my experience, the aftermarket shocks all had a much stiffer ride— however the weight of front and rear bumpers should smooth that out. Perhaps an unpopular opinion here: most of those big expensive shock brands started in the desert racing scene and have adapted that application to fit on stock vehicles. So you’re getting expensive shocks that you likely won’t take advantage of the capability, and you get the downsides of that racing pedigree, like spherical bearings that will transmit more vibration than stock rubber bushings. Those spherical bearings are also more likely to corrode and squeak in short order. Fine if you’re racing and ok tearing things apart all the time, less so if you want to never think about your suspension again. Ironman and Dobinsons have rubber bushings on offer, as do the less fancy OME offerings. I’ve run BP-51, Fox DSC on my truck, and ridden King, Dobinsons and Icon in others’. I’m back to stock because I liked the ride quality best :)

if you’re generally happy with the rig, have you considered forgoing the front and rear bumpers? That’s a lot of extra weight to haul if you’re not interested in bang-em-up trails.
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I don't have the same experience as @daneo.

I'm not an expert, but I've run more than a handful of aftermarket suspensions on vehicles ranging from race cars (bmw 325 autocross car, vw gti pro rally car, 911 dedicated track car) to offroad vehicles (including several 80 series, 100 series and two 200 series). None of them had/have the issues you describe and I've read on forums (in my opinion, primarily from people that have never used them who are just repeating things as if they were facts).

Despite many of these higher end brands having a racing pedigree, it doesn't make them unsuitable for other uses. Some are likely to have shorter service intervals than stock, but the oft quoted intervals are only for severe service like racing (per Ben Brazda at Filthy Motorsports, who should know). Some won't - a Bilstein setup should have the same kind of service intervals as a stock suspension, given equivalent conditions.

My personal opinion is that no original equipment land cruiser suspension of any generation is sufficient for heavy steel front and rear bumpers.

There are lots of options that could meet your needs, from an off the shelf Old Man Emu or Bilstein suspension, to King 3.0 (or beyond).

Talking to an expert is the key, and very few of us on this board are. In my experience, unless you are looking to do a major dollar build and dump a lot of cash, most vendors just want to sell you the product they rep, and don't really want to spend a lot of time figuring out your specific needs and vehicle setup. That is where Ben was different - he spent as much time as necessary to make sure I got the right thing, and has been just as helpful post sale. That means a lot.
 
xd40cal said:
I have a '16 LC200 and am about to throw on the ARB Summit bumper (already have winch hidden but am relocating) and rear bumper as well as a 12.5gal LRA. I have called a few shops and am getting varying opinions on what I should do with the suspension. My vehicle is a daily but goes off-road 20% of the time. What suspension setup is an actual upgrade for on road comfort, off road performance, while carrying the additional load?

I've been told to go Icon, OME BP51, and OME Nitrocharger. I don't want to sacrifice on road comfort, I'd like it improved from the OEM setup while performing well off road. My off road driving is usually fire roads, mountain trails, and the likes while I'm out chasing trout. I do not do mudding or rock crawling (unless there is an obstacle on the trail of course but you don't find me running hard in Moab.

I don't plan on adding anything else that increases weight (no roof rack, avoid rear swing out if possible, no roof top tent, no fridge/drawers etc) and I've already removed the 3rd row seats.

What are you running and have experience with?
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Your first problem is adding an ARB bumper if you want a comfortable ride. I had one and hated it. The big weight increase and how far it sticks out is a huge penalty on driving dynamics. You’ll have to increase the front spring rate much higher to prevent breaking dive and cornering feels heavy. I would much prefer a Dissent front bumper and don‘t add a winch unless you’re doing hardcore trails. Maxx trax will get you out of most sticky situations. Also, consider the Dobinson MRA suspension setup.
 
Squishy terms like comfortable are very subjective. I find my 200 very comfortable, and it has a big steel bumper and one of those horrible evil aftermarket racing pedigree suspensions. The difference is that the suspension is tuned to the specific vehicle and use cases, not an off the shelf solution.
 
And OP, to acknowledge your situation, it is really confusing and a lot of us have struggled with the same. My best advice is to find a real expert that has done a few hundred or thousand suspensions and listen to their advice.
 
No disrespect for different points of view, but I do think there is meaningful differentiation to @daneo s point. Suspension architecture differences depending on pedigree and intended use. Yet they have a lot of cross-over in capabilities. Race suspensions tend to use higher capacity hardware for performance at a trade to long term durability and NVH. Other differences are upright shock configurations (versus stock inverted) with more exposed hardened shock rod in the lower position. Reliance on higher charge pressures that bleed down over time. Rebuildable, but requiring shorter service intervals. Reasonable trades but things to be aware of if the goal is casual use with expectations for OE like longevity. OE shock architecture trades performance for things that prolong service life and comfort, using twin tube designs that use less internal gas pressure. Needing less seal pressure leads to less stiction and longer life.

Here's a great video which can help differentiate the aftermarket offerings

 
I really liked the BP51 suspension with the ARB bumpers. Still has a smooth right but is not floating all over the place like the OEM was.
King 2.5 shocks are also good and a little step up from the BP51. I went with BP51 as they were tested more.
Whoever is setting you up with parts should choose the correct front and rear springs.

I would not try out springs, just install the right ones in the first place.
 
Fisher23 said:
I really liked the BP51 suspension with the ARB bumpers. Still has a smooth right but is not floating all over the place like the OEM was.
King 2.5 shocks are also good and a little step up from the BP51. I went with BP51 as they were tested more.
Whoever is setting you up with parts should choose the correct front and rear springs.

I would not try out springs, just install the right ones in the first place.
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Is that your LC200 in your profile picture?
 
ACC Garage in Atlanta did my suspension (Icon Stage 6)—and their shop has a great reputation.

My LC has significant added weight: ARB Summit, front winch, Prinsu roof rack, and Slee tire carrier—plus a 24 gal aux tank.

I love the ride quality and adjustability (CDCV compression which is noticeable when adjusting). So far, I’ve taken it to several state parks and mild off-rod trails near our cabin, but otherwise—pavement mostly.

NOTE: That said, my subjective comparison is other trucks my family owns.

I bought my LC used and have never driven one with stock suspension.
 
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Heritage 2020 said:
ACC Garage in Atlanta did my suspension (Icon Stage 6)—and their shop has a great reputation.

My LC has significant added weight: ARB Summit, front winch, Prinsu roof rack, and Slee tire carrier—plus a 40 gal aux tank.

I love the ride quality and adjustability (CDCV compression which is noticeable when adjusting). So far, I’ve taken it to several state parks and mild trails near our cabin, but otherwise—pavement mostly.

NOTE: That said, my subjective comparison is other trucks my family owns.

I bought my LC used and have never driven one with stock suspension.
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Thank you! What's the maintenance been like on them? Dealing with squeaks etc?
 
xd40cal said:
Thank you! What's the maintenance been like on them? Dealing with squeaks etc?
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My Icon setup rides perfectly and I like the adjustability. No squeaks, perfect alignment, and despite any critics—I’ve owned Icon previously and gone 50k miles between service/rebuilds with a good amount of off-road use. My other current trucks have Fox and Bilstein and I feel that Icon is just as good—all are high quality systems dependent on the quality of the professional install, plus the fact that things need service.

That said, I’d highly recommend ACC as the work done on my truck (previous owner) is top notch—and their customer service has been great since my purchase in answering how things work (explaining the build), plus all the maintenance paperwork. I recommend ACC and will visit them when I want work done.
 
Heritage 2020 said:
My Icon setup rides perfectly and I like the adjustability. No squeaks and despite any critics—I’ve owned Icon previously and gone 50k miles between service/rebuilds with a good amount of off-road use. My other current trucks have Fox and Bilstein and I feel that Icon is just as good—all are high quality systems dependent on the quality of the professional install, plus the fact that things need service.

That said, I’d highly recommend ACC as the work done on my truck (previous owner) is top notch—and they’ve been great since my purchase in answering how things work, plus all the maintenance paperwork.
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Thank you for the candid feedback!
 
xd40cal said:
Awesome rig - really appreciate the photos.
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@xd40cal

If you go to ACC Garage on Facebook and scroll down to the photos from Sep 19, 2020 you will see a bunch of photos of my build—including the ARB Summit and Slee rear bumper install. It shows the cutting of the bumper covers/fenders for the Safari snorkel as well. There is one of the LRA.

Note: This was prior to the Icon Stage 6 install.

My HC is Blizzard Pearl.
 
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I own kings and love them, but the internal bypass of the BP-51s does make me a little jealous.

Until I remember I can rebuild my kings in my garage…
 
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