stumped two toy dealers, now I need an expert

[fadetogray]

Bought 96' FJZ80 with high hopes. Got tires. Got air-suspension lift. Was saving for supercharger and lockers, then got twins, one with heart defect and surgury at day 3 (he's ok). Then got house fire, saved Cruiser but lost work truck, all tools, shop (I'm self-employeed), enclosed work trailer, camper, and custom 1951 chevy suburban. Sorry guys, cruiser's got to go. ONE DAY before I was to list it for sale, I get this wierd thing with the ABS.

Problem: ABS kicks in right before stop at 5 mph then cuts out at 3 mph. Will not kick in unless above 5 mph. Does it everytime. Fine all other speeds. At first no code. Heard deposits could be on sensors. Tooks driver's side out--it's ok. Took passenger side out--came apart as I took it out and outer casing dropped down into hub. Took hub apart and fished casing out of grease, everything else looked fine. Put what was left of sensor back in just to see what would happen. Same problem, but now ABS light flashing from the get-go during stop and after a few stops, the the light stayed on solid and ABS system disabled itself (i guess). Ordered new sensors (two, front kit) and installed. Now light is off, no codes, but same old problem---ABS kicks in briefly right before stop. Took to dealer. He drove. He plugged in dummy box. He shrugged and said he'd do research. He now says that latter year Cruisers have a computer that allows the scan tool to actually read each wheel sensor wave forms. My 96' doesn't. Spoke with 2nd dealer. Dumb looks are free there.

If it were just me, I'd disable it; never liked ABS anyway. But I must turn my cruiser into cash and the way my luck is going I will sell it to some rice-rocket novice or over-caffinated soccer mom who will turn it into a 3 ton missle killing themselves or someone else (i live in a metro area full of nuts). From reading the few other posts there are about abs, most would just disconnect the stupid thing and be done, but can anyone help or point me in the right direction.

 

[elmariachi]

I am not a fan of disabling something so critical, given the weight of these trucks. I'd get yet another opinion so you can feel the problem is accurately identified, then either fix it and adjust the price accordingly or at least disclose it, give the buyer the repair estimate and prepare to take a little less if necessary.

A "competent" Toyota service department has the tools to fully diagnose the ABS, pinpoint the required repair and give you an estimate they can live by. That seems to be eluding you so I'd find another dealer.

 

[Spydaz]

Where do you live?? I'm in Long Island New York (Fageddaboudittt) and this place is steaming with Nut Job drivers, can't be as bad as it is here, hell thats why i drive the LC!!

 

[fadetogray]

Nashville, Tennessee. I'm suprised my experience with the ABS is unique. This is a typically stock previously doctor owned street commuter; no high water or catching air abuse that might explain an anomoly like this. I had the 'catylist below threshold' problem I read about in another post, but this is truely odd. I suppose I could sell it w/o ABS, but keep in mind this is country where the mere theat of a dusting of snow closes schools and where rain sqawls traffic for hours b/c of all the wrecks. Maybe I shouldn't feel so worried about it, but this is my first Cruiser and having grown up on a farm where we have gone through dozens of different vehicles, this is the stoutest, most solid ox of a vehicle I've ever driven. In the event of a high speed collision, whatever this 3 ton truck plows into it will demolish. As far as this ABS problem is concerned, no scenerio I can think of would explain why the system would engage only at 5mph and out at 3mph consistently, while working properly all other times. I'm still hopeful someone out there has seen, heard, or has insight into this system problem. Thanks for the posts.

 

[Gumby]

I have had this problem. It is how the ABS behaves when it's getting a weak wheel sensor signal. At low speeds the sensor reads lock up and activates the ABS. In the case I had the hub wasn't seated all of the way in the rear. ABout 1/16 too much air gap was all I had.

A scan tool with ABS capabilities should tell you which wheel sensor is not reading right. I would suspect it is the one that fell apart. Happens on the front a lot when the birf is yanked on when the wheel speed sensor is not removed, or if it sticks when pulling it out and the plastic breaks. You gotta be really carefull to pry under the mount. Ask me how I know.

 

[fadetogray]

Since I just replaced the front two sensors and I'm not familier with the design of the birf, could a bearing, sleeve, yoke, etc. in the birf be wearing and causing the extra air gap? You spoke of a rear hub not in all the way----how exactly did you correct that problem? Thank you so much for the input! You're giving me direction.

 

[IdahoDoug]

I am also amazed that a dealer could not correctly diagnose the problem and the "your truck and your truck alone doesn't have the computer thingy" diagnosis tells both of us something about that dealer. Take it to a competent dealer before you waste time/money trying to figure out what is going on.

Also a point of clarification - are the ABS sensors Toyota factory replacements?

My money is on it being the sensor ring on the one you replaced. Something's allowed the ring to hit the sensor (incorrect rebuild/repack at some point?) and either it's happened again (would take - Oh, 100 feet to destroy the sensor) or there's junk in the teeth of the ring from eating the previous sensor. All this points to someone incorrectly servicing the hub by pulling the birfield without knowing they must first remove the sensor.



DougM

 

[elmariachi]

In the event of a high speed collision, whatever this 3 ton truck plows into it will demolish.

I too am a big fan of these trucks, but I can assure you that your prior statement is incorrect. I hit a tree chipper at 20 mph and did this damage to the tune of $12,500. Had the ABS not been working, I would have been unable to move to the right and avoid a full frontal collision and I would have really been hurt. But thanks to ABS I was able to steer the vehicle as I approached the point of impact.

I agree with a prior post that you have something going on between the ABS ring and the sensor, where the entire ABS signal process originates. If you have had it apart and the rings and sensors are in tact, and the ABS wiring harness is in tact, then I'd go find another dealer to give you an $85/one hour diagnosis. Or, if you have a factory service manual, you may be able to manually diagnose the electrical problem yourself, though it may be tedious.

 

[mnwolftrack]

It's possible you could be held liable if a future buyer were to get in an accident, and it is traced back to the fact that you disabled a safety feature on the vehicle. This has been discussed before on discoweb.org (land rover forum) and starts much heated debates.

If it were my vehicle, either just sell it as-is with the problem and let the buyer fix it, or try again with those dealers (or try a new one). That is not a satisfactory response for both of them to just say they don't know and tell you to move along.

 

[Gumby]

Since I just replaced the front two sensors and I'm not familier with the design of the birf, could a bearing, sleeve, yoke, etc. in the birf be wearing and causing the extra air gap? You spoke of a rear hub not in all the way----how exactly did you correct that problem? Thank you so much for the input! You're giving me direction.

I don't recall what caused the rear hub to not be seated all the way. If yours has rear wheel bearing problems, or has recently been serviced, it might be something to look at.

The front wheel speed sensors break off like you described. If the part that fell in wasn't chewed up I suspect it was just manhandled at some point and the plastic cover came off. Mine did that the first time I took it off. I glued it back together and ran it. It was supposed to be a temporary fix to get me home that night and it worked fine for a couple of years.

Are the wheel sensors in all the way? It doesn't take much.

Jack up the rear and try to get some in and out movement on the tires. The sensors on the rear come in from the back. If the tire has moved out at all from bad or misadjusted bearings, that might cause an air gap.

You can read the wave forms right at the sensors if you have a lab scope. That's a bit more than most of us have, but not more than to be able to expect a dealer to be able to do.