Stock suspension adequate?

[Tanglefoot]

So, I have had my 2017 LC for a year and like it pretty well. I will likely go whole hog on mods and upgrades but money issues dictate a piecemeal approach. Given my intended usage, the first mod up seems to be the 40 gal auxiliary tank and a slee rear bumper.

Question....while I will likely go for a suspension upgrade later, but in the interim..... will the stock suspension be adequate to handle the bumper and tank?

thanks,

Tanglefoot

 

[DPA200]

Mind if i ask why those are the 2 first planned upgrades? Not the usual order most I'd say go. I'd usually put bigger A/T or M/T tires as a strong #1, not sure if you already did that. I'd then say lift, then sliders. Those upgrades alone will get you 90% of the places you could want to go

Bumpers and Aux would be. Bumpers, skids, and Aux are usually later in the game. Stock suspension is really meant for stock weight trucks

 

[stonepa]

What are you looking to get out of the truck right away? 40 gallon tank is a lot of weight to eat up payload, as is the bumper (which I would expect is to relocate the spare). Are you looking just to enhance the range (which I totally get)?

To your original question, doing what you are looking at adds about 475 lbs to the back of the vehicle, rear of the rear axle. Well within the payload of the rear suspension but you will notice a lighter steering as a result. If you don't need them, I'd remove the 3rd row seat to cut the weight 125 lbs or so.

 

[Tanglefoot]

I would think that in most cases you would be right. But, this rig is not going to Moab and my most often encountered off road challenges are snow and mud while out and about in the Rockies. Yep, winch and front bumper as bank account allows.

I am still entertaining the idea of driving to Alaska this summer. The last time I did that, a British Columbia fuel station I was counting on was closed. I ran out of fuel.....pita. Don’t want a repeat of that.

Another issue is pulling an a frame hardside pop up. Gas mileage will suck and range will reduced.

 

[Tanglefoot]

Stonepa .... yep, already got the seats out, but I figure the trailer will add 300 lbs or so of tongue weight.

 

[Tanglefoot]

Hmm.... I just read through this thread again..... looks like it would be wise to upgrade the suspension at the time of tank install.

 

[stonepa]

I would think that in most cases you would be right. But, this rig is not going to Moab and my most often encountered off road challenges are snow and mud while out and about in the Rockies. Yep, winch and front bumper as bank account allows.

I am still entertaining the idea of driving to Alaska this summer. The last time I did that, a British Columbia fuel station I was counting on was closed. I ran out of fuel.....pita. Don’t want a repeat of that.

Another issue is pulling an a frame hardside pop up. Gas mileage will suck and range will reduced.

I totally understand the AlCan fuel issue. Made that trip many many times in a 60, 100, and my 200.

Not sure about your viewpoint, but I am all about reliability + capability so I do everything I can to keep the weight down. Really think about your essentials. re:winch and bumper - I've had them on several LCs and my old LR Discovery. Given the driving I do, I only used them when teaching offroad driving courses back when I was a Land Rover Driving School instructor. Other than that I just found them to be something I had to maintain but never used in the real world. My 200 doesn't have any of these but has been to Alaska, all over Canada, and down as far south as Panama. So, really think how you want to use the vehicle.

 

[Markuson]

My eyes can sorta see this morning...

My 1.3 cents on 2 basic things to consider—and why I think you should consider going ahead with suspension-

—Rear coil springs are about appropriately compensating for major additional weight. -With the weight of a Slee rear and a full 40, your stock springs will be severely overloaded. You will have sagging, poor performance on stock springs designed for far less weight.

—Upgraded shock absorbers (are about controlling compression speed and especially suppressing bounce (rebound) after compressing the stronger rear springs you will need to use.

Because you are talking about many future changes that will change weight...I’d suggest a suspension with adjustable preload in front and adjustable compression & rebound all around. This will give you weight adjustment options as the weight of your truck changes, and require only rear spring swaps at some point if you continue to get heavier.

Going with Coilovers in front that have adjustable preload means they can be made to handle whatever weight you may add later in front...and adjustable compression/rebound on the shocks will let you control all after spring adjustments. Rear coils are easy to swap out later should you continue adding weight and again the company/rebound adjustments will handle bounce from the heavier rear spring.

BP-51s do all of the above as do some other options.
My BPs have been on since having only ATs...all the way up to the heavy beast I drive now. Rear coil spring swaps and compression/rebound adjustments have kept weights well under control and my truck handles incredibly well despite its massiveness and aggressive driving.

All that to say...
Yes. You really should upgrade suspension when adding huge weight like that.

PS. If BPs or other costly options are too much $$...at least upgrade to a basic OME setup and get help choosing appropriate springs weights. While you’re at it, upgrade UCAs in front so you’ll be able to adjust alignment as your build gets beefy and lift extends your control arms downward through their arc.

 

[Tanglefoot]

My slim wallet has been kicking my ass but my brain has kicked in and reasserted some control.

Gonna get the suspension upgrade and tank/bumper at the same time.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[TimCFJ40]

If you want to wait on the suspension, just spend ~$150 and install some airbags in the rear springs. At stock height, this will help with your trailer tongue weight as well. I'm running stock rear springs, and even using the air bags to get a small amount of lift as well as load handling. I run about 20 PSI all the time and up to 40 PSI for towing with no ill effects. If/when I replace the rear springs I will probably still keep the bags (or get the taller ones for the taller springs) because they're so nice for adjusting to loading.

 

[cboyd]

the latter point on airbags is definitely an approach if you do the fuel tank alone... but i don't know if I would run that heavy full time with the fuel and a bumper. it's best to handle the constant loads properly. Markuson's post hit all of the pertinent points... as usual!

My main concern on airbags would be the failure of a bag or a line in a remote location... with just a tank it's manageable to empty it until you can get fixed up. the bumper is permanent weight.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

Don't know if this helps, but an option.

If we are talking just handling the added rear end weight of a tank and bar, just switch the rear springs to a heavier coil. Rear coils are $250ish.

From factory rear shocks to BPs, Icons, Kings, everything, the compressed and extended lengths are the same. So you don't have to worry about the factory shocks not being able to handle it outside of dampening. But if we think about it another way, you wouldn't be trying to lift the truck yet. Just compensating for the extra weight, so you should be generally around the same height as stock when loaded down with the extras (as the bar and tank, not so much the tanks completely filled). Sure heavier dampening shocks will help, but you don't have to do it just yet, if you need to save money.

I did this to a customer's truck last year. Rear 24 gal tank, kaymar with dual swings, and our sliders. For suspension, it was the Toyota spacer and 2721s with factory shocks all around.

Sure, switching out shocks would of been even better, but it still felt pretty good.

I believe money is best used for fuel and time off from work to go have an adventure. If upgrades help with that, then they are worth it. Factory shocks allowed that customer to afford an adventure, and the extra fuel gave him the confidence to travel more confidently in the back country. (I would have not done the tank, but that was me). That's a good build in my eyes, because it worked for him, and not what of worked for someone else.

 

[stonepa]

I believe money is best used for fuel and time off from work to go have an adventure. If upgrades help with that, then they are worth it.

Amen to that.

 

[TimCFJ40]

My main concern on airbags would be the failure of a bag or a line in a remote location... with just a tank it's manageable to empty it until you can get fixed up. the bumper is permanent weight.

The good news is a failed airbag or line in a remote or otherwise location would only manifest itself as a saggy rear end. Hardly a scenario that leaves the vehicle stranded or inoperable. I'd agree with a bumper and tank the best long term solution would be rear springs/shocks. However, if the OP is waiting to decide what suspension to go with, or saving up for said suspension, a set of bags could easily cover the gap until the final plan comes together.

 

[coleAK]

I would think that in most cases you would be right. But, this rig is not going to Moab and my most often encountered off road challenges are snow and mud while out and about in the Rockies. Yep, winch and front bumper as bank account allows.

I am still entertaining the idea of driving to Alaska this summer. The last time I did that, a British Columbia fuel station I was counting on was closed. I ran out of fuel.....pita. Don’t want a repeat of that.

Another issue is pulling an a frame hardside pop up. Gas mileage will suck and range will reduced.

I’m in Alaska. I can’t see doing a extended fuel tank for one trip. Heck I live up here and tow a 6800 lb camper all over AK and NW Canada (at 8.5-9 mpg) with my LX with The OEM tank. I carry extra fuel in cans on a bumper tray, at least 30gal extra when I go up the haul road to hunt.

 

[stonepa]

I’m in Alaska. I can’t see doing a extended fuel tank for one trip. Heck I live up here and tow a 6800 lb camper all over AK and NW Canada (at 8.5-9 mpg) with my LX with The OEM tank. I carry extra fuel in cans on a bumper tray, at least 30gal extra when I go up the haul road to hunt.

Especially when you see the sign that says there are no services for 250 miles...

 

[Tanglefoot]

Well, I guess everyone does their own calculus....trip characteristics, cost, convenience, schedule flexibility, wallet... then how long one would expect to own the vehicle....so on and so forth. I drove this land cruiser for a year before I decided I liked it well enough to keep it and put mod money into it. Might end up being the last auto I ever buy. Gonna put dollars into it and enjoy it. If I wasn’t gonna keep it a long time I would surely not put very much mod money into it.....as you say, it would not be worth it.

I flew up the last time I went....,rented a car, stayed in hotels....I enjoyed that trip but would prefer to drive up this summer if my schedule .... well, my family schedule....allows.

I have been driving a pickup with a camper and or trailers and found that with the pickup’s 23.5 gal fuel tank and 11-13.5 mpg ....the range ... between fuel stops...at least the range I am comfortable with is only about 225 miles. Usually have three fuel stops a day when on a long leg. Oddly....my bladder seems to have greater range than the truck.

Anyway, thank you all for your comments.

TF

 

[tominboise]

FWIW, it is easy to change rear springs, and there are lots available on the classifieds. I think I have a couple of sets in the attic, as do a lot of guys tuning their rigs. So check the ride height now, install the tank and bumper and recheck to see what you might need to do, spring or spacer wise.

 

[Tanglefoot]

Update: Got the bp-51 and rear bumper installed. Aux tank not delivered yet.

Am pretty well pleased with everything so far. Bumper solid, no rattle.

bp-51 really makes a difference. Corners better, soaks up potholes and bumps with no drama. All in all, the truck is more fun to drive.... can kinda “throw it“ around corners and over bumps. No wallowing.

rear springs are sized for the weight of the tank, but it is not yet installed, so there is some “boing” going over humps, railroad track etc...another few weeks until tank install.

 

[SQRRRL]

So, I have had my 2017 LC for a year and like it pretty well. I will likely go whole hog on mods and upgrades but money issues dictate a piecemeal approach. Given my intended usage, the first mod up seems to be the 40 gal auxiliary tank and a slee rear bumper.

Question....while I will likely go for a suspension upgrade later, but in the interim..... will the stock suspension be adequate to handle the bumper and tank?

thanks,

Tanglefoot

Do all those mods at once with suspension