Startup rattle with Rotella syn 5-40 (1 Viewer)

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I recently switched from Mobil 1 10W30 to Rotella 5W40 and noticed a slight increase in startup rattle. I have been using the large toyota filters since I got the truck last year.

Just another data point.

Ary
 
I had a rattle too with rotella 15w40 and a napa filter. Worst during startup on cold ohio mornings. the damn thing still runs like a top, I never let it bother me.

I am solving the problem by pulling the motor and putting a Chev V8 in. Someday it will be back on the road.

Kirk
 
as far as I can tell start up rattle is the timing chain slapping before the oil pressure actuated chain tensioner gets it under control, the longer it takes pressure to get to the chain tensioner and the higher the stat up RPM the more start up rattle.

If getting the start up idle down does not do it you can drill the oil passage in the chain tensioner,

Search for posts by Robbie / powderpig for info.

I only get the rattle when I unhook the battery. First start afterwards RPM goes to 2k or so, rattles loudly for a second or two. I use 20004 filters (about 25 left) and Mobil one, just put in Rotella 5w-40 T-syn. will let you know if I get any rattle.

I wonder if start up rattle is the cause of broken chain slippers seen in some early 1FZ's? I know the slipper was updated later but maybe it was just beefed up to handle the whipping of the chain during start?
 
I did that and it did not fix.
Mobil 1 15/50 never happens 5/30 happens always
 
cpg said:
Mobil 1 15/50 never happens 5/30 happens always
Click to expand...


That is counter-intuitive. The 5W-30, being lower viscosity at all temps, should get to the chain more quickly.

I guess it shows there is more to it than just viscosity (I am assuming all other normal variables like filter and ambient are accounted for).
 
Doug I've got another possible variable. is this dating from right after the h/g work and, if so, did you change the chain tensioner on the 93? you might have to go back to 0w40 mobil 1 to pin this one down :D
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg
Mobil 1 15/50 never happens 5/30 happens always



That is counter-intuitive. The 5W-30, being lower viscosity at all temps, should get to the chain more quickly.

I guess it shows there is more to it than just viscosity (I am assuming all other normal variables like filter and ambient are accounted for).



Every thing the same maybe the heavier oil stay up there longer and does not all go to the pan
 
The rattle used to happen before I switched to 0-40 but never happened after that. The small filter helped as well.

Ever since this thread I've been making other observations. One is that the high startup idle has slowly returned and when it happens is when I get the rattle. Whenever the startup is slower (1500 or less) it never happens. So I'm starting to think it's more the high startup RPM that causes it. Will keep observing and noting behavior but I wanted to let you all know I may have been hasty in linking the Rotella to the rattle now that I'm noting this.

DougM
 
I totally agree Doug, its the high start up RPM that causes it, I have also noticed that it can be less of a rattle with the car parked on a gradiant when doing a cold start.
 
cpg said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg
Mobil 1 15/50 never happens 5/30 happens always



That is counter-intuitive. The 5W-30, being lower viscosity at all temps, should get to the chain more quickly.

I guess it shows there is more to it than just viscosity (I am assuming all other normal variables like filter and ambient are accounted for).



Every thing the same maybe the heavier oil stay up there longer and does not all go to the pan
Click to expand...


The difference in viscosity when cold is pretty great (roughly 550cSt vs about 1800 at 30F) so the pumpability at start is different as well. But the difference in viscosity when hot (210F) is much less, 10 cSt vs 17.5. When hot, both oils will drain pretty quickly.

What would make more difference is if one oil had esters. Neither of these oils contain any esters iirc.
 
My 94, 80 rattled at cold start up most every time. I use the big filter and 5w 30 oil.

The 96, 80 I have now, does the exact same thing. I've been using the big filter cause I 'thought" the big filter was the better one to use. Wrong?
 
switched

Just completed switch over to 2 gallons 5w 40 Rotella and NAPA Gold filter from...small Toyota filter and whatever Dealership uses. Pressure a tad higher and previous ping/rattle seems to have lessened although not certain what one has to do with the other. 146k and no leaks. Monitoring closely.
 
how about this does your cold start rattle still happen after wheeling where the motor has being constantly idling and then run through the power band hard i to have a cold start rattle but it magicaly went away after a day of wheeling and as a side note the 89 4runner i had had the same issues until i did the headgaskets on it (3vz motor) scraping the carbon off the tops of the pistons seemed to cure my rattle on the 4runner so is it possible the crude on the tops of the pistons is holding unburnt fuel and hydrocarbons and causing the rattle ????? just a thought
 
4LLC said:
is it possible the crude on the tops of the pistons is holding unburnt fuel and hydrocarbons and causing the rattle ????? just a thought
Click to expand...


I doubt it, I have carbon problems, I have seen it in a bore scope and measured it in compression, but no start up rattle.

look into the timing chain.
 
4LLC said:
how about this does your cold start rattle still happen after wheeling where the motor has being constantly idling and then run through the power band hard i to have a cold start rattle but it magicaly went away after a day of wheeling and as a side note the 89 4runner i had had the same issues until i did the headgaskets on it (3vz motor) scraping the carbon off the tops of the pistons seemed to cure my rattle on the 4runner so is it possible the crude on the tops of the pistons is holding unburnt fuel and hydrocarbons and causing the rattle ????? just a thought
Click to expand...

maybe you at one point had the truck at enough of a downhill angle to give the chain tensioner a nice hot oil bath and this or perhaps a good timely jolt freed it up some so it responds better?

this problem is affected by filter type, oil viscosity and even brand of oil. It has appeared on new trucks. It is thus not a combustion chamber issue. It is a lubrication issue that is influenced by oil pressure and the properties of the oil. Logic suggests that the chain tensioner is finicky.

that said, i recently changed my chain tensioner as part of a h/g job and switched oils and filter too. the first 200 miles was rotella dino 15w40 and a 20004 filter. I got intermittent start up rattle. The next 2700 have been rotella 15w40 and the small napa gold (1348?). not a hint of start up rattle. I am now about to go back to rotella 0w40 full syn and 20004 filters. in the past this set up gave me occasional brief start up rattle as opposed to mobil 1 10w30 or 5w30 with a 20004 which gave none, and penzoil 10w30 syn and a 1515 filter which gave constant start up rattle. I wonder what will happen next.
 
I'll be interested in hearing the results. My 93 startup rattle is still regular on cold starts. I'm thinking it's the high RPM start and will be doing the idle O ring trick this summer. 97 is not doing it with identical oil/filter/miles.

DougM
 
Doug, does the block heater change it at all for "cold" starts? I don't have it, but I also don't have the high-idle starts. With the big filter and Mobil1 5W30, I can hear and see a lack of oil pressure, but no significant rattle. This is the first summer I've not run 15W50, I figure that's a contributor.
 
no difference with block htr on the 1st start but idle drops much sooner.
 
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