Stabilizer with ram assist, and other steering questions

[Spook50]

When it comes time to get a new steering gearbox, I'm going to get a beat up one from a junkyard and send it to West Texas Offroad to be rebuilt and ported for ram assist ($500 for the whole deal, not too shabby). I also need new TREs and a new stabilizer. Should I go with something other than OME or OEM for the stabilizer with the ram assist? I would think not (figured on getting an OME stabilizer), but hey, never hurts to ask, right?

For the TREs, are 80 series tie rods, ends and drag link stronger than (and compatible with) 60 series components? If not, what's a good way to upgrade (or should I stay stock?)? I know the 60 series stuff is fairly stout, but with my luck, I'd be the one to bash it against something and lose my steering

The knuckle rebuild made a big difference in the feel and smoothness of the front end, but something's still clunking when I steer, so I'm going through everything before I get married next year (ie: while I still have money to do it).

 

[muddogbob]

you won't want to run a stabalizer and hydro-assist. the ram will be the best stabalizer you've ever had. trust me.


fj80 rod ends are the way to go...but you'll need new tierod/drag links to fit their larger rod ends. if you're going soa, then get highsteer and be done.

 

[Mace]

you won't want to run a stabalizer and hydro-assist. the ram will be the best stabalizer you've ever had. trust me.


fj80 rod ends are the way to go...but you'll need new tierod/drag links to fit their larger rod ends. if you're going soa, then get highsteer and be done.

Yep...

 

[Spook50]

you won't want to run a stabalizer and hydro-assist. the ram will be the best stabalizer you've ever had. trust me.


fj80 rod ends are the way to go...but you'll need new tierod/drag links to fit their larger rod ends. if you're going soa, then get highsteer and be done.

I had originally thought the stabilizer was replaced by the ram itself, but looking at the Redneck Ram setup, the mounts weld to the axle and to one of the tie rods. Am I still able to lose the stabilizer with this setup, or can I still simply mount the ram to the stabilizer's mounting points?

Can I go highsteer when I'm stitting at stock height? I haven't looked at highsteer stuff at all, but I thought I would have to wait until I was SOA'd before going highsteer.

 

[Mark W]

You don't need or want a stabilizer with a ram assist. There's no point to it. The ram is the ultimate stabilizer.

Mark...

 

[Spook50]

You don't need or want a stabilizer with a ram assist. There's no point to it. The ram is the ultimate stabilizer.

Mark...

Intriguing. So would I want to stick with welding the mounting tabs for the ram to the axle and tie rod, or would I be able to mount the ram in place of the stabilizer?

 

[Mark W]

My persoanl preference is to mount the ram(s) to the axle and the knuckle arm(s). But this will require modification or complete fabrication of the arm.

Doing this takes all of the the stress from the ram off of the steering linkage. Basically turns your steering box and steering linkage into a sensing/control system and lets the ram(s) do all the work.

But of the two options you mention, attaching to the axle and the tierod is the way to go. No sense in routing all the strength of the ram through any more TREs than you have to. For that matter, no sense in routing it through anymore rods than you have to. They can bend after all.


Mark...

 

[Spook50]

My persoanl preference is to mount the ram(s) to the axle and the knuckle arm(s). But this will require modification or complete fabrication of the arm.

Doing this takes all of the the stress from the ram off of the steering linkage. Basically turns your steering box and steering linkage into a sensing/control system and lets the ram(s) do all the work.

So you use two rams for your system? I like that idea, but damn that sounds like it'd be alot of work. Can our factory PS pumps even put out enough to control two rams (even after modded)? I'll also have hydroboost in addition to all this (hoping to start on the HB next weekend).

But of the two options you mention, attaching to the axle and the tierod is the way to go. No sense in routing all the strength of the ram through any more TREs than you have to. For that matter, no sense in routing it through anymore rods than you have to. They can bend after all.

Good point in keeping the stress off the TREs. The possibility of bending the rods was what had me curious about upgrading the entire linkage to begin with (especially if I do just one ram).

 

[Mace]

Stock shock location will just bend the TR.


Mount it to the axle and to the DS TR end....

 

[Spook50]

Stock shock location will just bend the TR.


Mount it to the axle and to the DS TR end....

Mount it to the TRE itself, or just close to the end of the TR? I'm starting to like Mark W's suggestion of mounting to the axle and knuckle arms, using two rams. Still though, I would expect that'd take more flow than our PS pumps are capable of.

Mark W, any pics of your setup?

 

[Mace]

I seriously doubt that mark wants you to use 2 rams. There is no reason for it.

Mounting to the steering arm is not a ad idea. But it depends on which arms you have.

Basically, you would need a behind the axle steering setup for this to work.

My setup runs the Ram mounted to the axle and the other end of the ram mounted to the TR just before the TR. It is very simple and very strong (I am behind the axle TR as well)

I honestly think you are making this more difficult than it is.

 

[Spook50]

I seriously doubt that mark wants you to use 2 rams. There is no reason for it.

Mounting to the steering arm is not a ad idea. But it depends on which arms you have.

Basically, you would need a behind the axle steering setup for this to work.

My setup runs the Ram mounted to the axle and the other end of the ram mounted to the TR just before the TR. It is very simple and very strong (I am behind the axle TR as well)

I honestly think you are making this more difficult than it is.

I probably am, but I like to look into all the options that are available, and since this is still pretty new to me, I'm trying to figure everything out all at once.

 

[Mace]

Baby steps


One ram, mounted to the end of the TR itself. And you will be golden..

Dual rams were popular for a very short period of time before double ended rams became readily available. The bebefit of a DE ram vs a SE ram is that the SE ram typically does not have quite as much assist in one direction as the other. In a hydro assist situation that is really not an issue.

You would be amazed at how mice it is to have a 1.5" 6" stroke ram with your stock steering....

And Matt is an awesome guy and does sweet work..

 

[Mark W]

Mount it to the TRE itself, or just close to the end of the TR? I'm starting to like Mark W's suggestion of mounting to the axle and knuckle arms, using two rams. Still though, I would expect that'd take more flow than our PS pumps are capable of.

Mark W, any pics of your setup?

It is not feasible to connect a ram to the existing TRE. It you take this approach you mount it to the tie rod *near* the end.

You use small rams when you use two. A pair of 1.5 inch rams with a 1 inch rams use less fluid in either direction than a single 2 inch ram uses on it's Power" side. About 87% (and provides the same amount of push...87%)


Mark...

 

[Mark W]

I seriously doubt that mark wants you to use 2 rams. There is no reason for it.

Mounting to the steering arm is not a ad idea. But it depends on which arms you have.

Basically, you would need a behind the axle steering setup for this to work.

My setup runs the Ram mounted to the axle and the other end of the ram mounted to the TR just before the TR. It is very simple and very strong (I am behind the axle TR as well)

I honestly think you are making this more difficult than it is.

Well actually I don't care if Spook uses two, seven or no rams at all.

You don't need to have your steering behind that axle to use two rams. In fact it works more simply if you don't. I've put the rams in front a couple of times and I'm working up a system now which locates the rams behind the axle with the rest of the steering in front... using arms that extend for and aft of the knuckle (draglink and tierod remain in front while the rams are behind the axle by themselves).

As to reason for it... For starters it provides the same power and fluid demands in each direction, unlike a single double acting ram.

Additionally it is easier to keep everything lined up and swinging in the same arc on the same planes than it is with a single double ended/double acting ram. With a double ended ram you need to use an additional link with two plane pivots at each end between the ram and the knucklearm/tierod connection point. With separate rams aligned correctly and a single plane pivot at each end you don't need this link.

Plumbing two arms is more of a PITA .

I don't like the one, single ended ram approach. The two ram or the double end rams work well. Yiu just have to decided which way you want to go.


Mark...

 

[Spook50]

Baby steps


One ram, mounted to the end of the TR itself. And you will be golden..

Dual rams were popular for a very short period of time before double ended rams became readily available. The bebefit of a DE ram vs a SE ram is that the SE ram typically does not have quite as much assist in one direction as the other. In a hydro assist situation that is really not an issue.

You would be amazed at how mice it is to have a 1.5" 6" stroke ram with your stock steering....

And Matt is an awesome guy and does sweet work..

Cool, single DE ram it is then. Is the 6" the right length for our steering travel? I've heard some folks talk about the 6" and others saying they use the 8". Then again I guess I could just measure my steering travel myself

 

[Mace]

I don't like the one, single ended ram approach. The two ram or the double end rams work well. Yiu just have to decided which way you want to go.


Mark...

Really? I have never had a problem with a single ram.
And acually, I have never even seen a set of rams used in Hydro assist.
That is interesting, Got pics?


a single 2" ram is excessive for the street. It works great in the rocks but can be annoying at stoplights.

 

[Mark W]

Don't have any digitals. I've got some hard copy but I'll have to scan them in. I probably have some shots from the trail on CD. These won't have closup details of the rams but you can see the basics of the setup.
I'll see what I've got a little later.


I would not tell you that I would expect "problems" with a single ram. I just prefer to attach to the knuckle arms rather than the tierod. Wiith dual rams there is almost no stress passed through the TRE or the teirod. With a single arm all of stress passes through all of these points. If you anchor a single ram to one of the knuckle arrms you will have increased stress to that arm as the resistance of the other side is either fought through the arm or leveraged against it (depending on how you connect things).
And again, the lower strength of the sytem in one direction compared to the other is a compromise that bugs me just in principle if nothing else.

Lots of folks (most) run a single ram and it works fine for them. I just think that dual rams or a double ended ram is a more effective, effecient and elegant way to approach this mod.


Mark...
As for "a single 2 inch ram is excessive for the street"... Yep. One of the reasons that I like the dual ram setup is nicer light load manners and more road feel/feedback. But you don't put rams on for a rig that is primarily a street rig anyway. Rams are for rigs that have tires that call for real muscle to turn. Nothing under 38x15 calls for rams. If you're burning up these kind of tires on a street rig you're just throwing money away.


Mark...